forums.rs

Forums

Myreque VI+ - what we know

Quick find code: 341-342-431-65125527

of 38
PyraTheAegis
Jan Member 2005

PyraTheAegis

Posts: 9,215 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Meku said :
knowing Jagex it will just be the standard "gather armies from all the human kingdoms and fight the evil invading force in epic battle of doom that will shake the whole Gielinor!!!!"

so boring That sounds more like the Elder Gods tbh. Think about it they can be summed up as: Boring generic ancient evil is going to wake up and destroy the world.
Member of the Kalos Elite Four and Team Flare.

05-Jan-2016 16:58:54

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Rowley said :
That sounds awesome. Do you mind if I use this idea? :P I'm joking, of course. It's a shame you believe this is something we'd do these days...or at least something that I would do. With TLoV I went out of my way to show that the series isn't just good vs evil, and to show more from the perspective of the vampyres, and that's something I intend to deliver on.

Also...I'm lurking on this thread again (for no reason, honest).

I do worry, through no fault of your own, if it isn't a bit too late. I mean we are starting the finale with the most sympathetic vampire we've encountered being Mornid, a tertiary character at best.

Really for optimal effect this process should have began much earlier. This is also part of the reason I dislike Branches of Darkmeyer. That was the perfect opportunity to add some greyness to the vampires, seeing them in their natural setting. An greyness that would have made choices hard and a complex storyline with emotional impact. But instead we got "oh how evil" cliches. Branches was a real weak point choosing to disregard arcs and any attempt at characterisation.

So my worry is you will face a choice. Spending time to flesh out a sympathetic vampyre struggle will take away from resolving the other plot points (although as with Calsidiu whether these plot points can be resolved satisfactorily is questionable). Characterisation has been so neglected at this point I'm unsure if these characters can be saved. Focusing on the existing plot points would leave the investment in the series as low as it has been where I care little for what happens I just want it gone.

I'd like moral ambiguity but at this stage doubt its possible.

05-Jan-2016 17:01:56

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
PyraTheAegis said :
I hope we can side with the vampyres. Some of us are tired of the incompetent King Roald.

I'm fine with King Roald, its the Myreque that really annoy me. I'm sick of running errands for them, having to kill Vanstrom alone (have any of them actually killed a vampyre by themselves?), having to kill Drakan (he's not my enemy - sounded quite nice) and pouty Safalaan bothers me to no end (do your own puzzles). Honestly they are so useless - have they achieved anything by themselves?

05-Jan-2016 17:08:30

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

Posts: 9,633 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Rowley said :
Meku said :
knowing Jagex it will just be the standard "gather armies from all the human kingdoms and fight the evil invading force in epic battle of doom that will shake the whole Gielinor!!!!"

so boring

That sounds awesome. Do you mind if I use this idea? :P I'm joking, of course. It's a shame you believe this is something we'd do these days...or at least something that I would do. With TLoV I went out of my way to show that the series isn't just good vs evil, and to show more from the perspective of the vampyres, and that's something I intend to deliver on.

Also...I'm lurking on this thread again (for no reason, honest).

Werewolf lore plz. Just a book and some dialogue.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

05-Jan-2016 20:08:35

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't get the borderline obsession with moral greyness. A. Rey 6th age trait if you ask me and that's what Myreque seems to be pushing towards. Zaros stuff being brought in fairly heavily to justify the direction without any of the requirements talking about it. Choices for Vanescula that we've heard about from the VIP Q&A and moral greyness. Not that moral greyness is good or bad it just seems to have become an obsession within many things.

Vampyres are so detrimental to humans you'd never side with them even if you disliked the Myreque, who are mostly dead, or if you disliked King Roald who is a thoroughly incompetent leader but is still human.
Lewis
|
Quester
|
Scottish

05-Jan-2016 22:45:54

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

Posts: 9,633 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Balustan said :
I don't get the borderline obsession with moral greyness. A. Rey 6th age trait if you ask me and that's what Myreque seems to be pushing towards. Zaros stuff being brought in fairly heavily to justify the direction without any of the requirements talking about it. Choices for Vanescula that we've heard about from the VIP Q&A and moral greyness. Not that moral greyness is good or bad it just seems to have become an obsession within many things.

Vampyres are so detrimental to humans you'd never side with them even if you disliked the Myreque, who are mostly dead, or if you disliked King Roald who is a thoroughly incompetent leader but is still human.

Grey characters are much more interesting, especially when you're dealing with individuals within a group. Making entire races black or white does nothing but create a boring character inhabiting multiple bodies. Make them each different shades of grey with varying motivations and values and they become unique, complex individuals that the audience can relate to.

IMO, story should always be the first priority. Giving the characters within complex motivations strengthens the plot because, as a result, the audience can better understands their perspective. We care more about them when they aren't part of some hive mind. However, as to the specific example of Vanescula, I do agree that she should be portrayed in a very dark shade of grey. After all, she did specifically target and kill a child for the sake of a reaction in Legacy of Blood...
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

06-Jan-2016 00:07:36 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2016 00:08:11 by Chaos Lupus

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't really see what understanding the perspective of Vampyres in this case is useful for. We are going to be forced to kill them anyway. At most it will make us feel a little bad about stopping them. I highly doubt we will even feel bad at that because well they want to use us as a food source. I don't think Greyness inherently makes a character more interesting. It can but I don't think it necessarily does. I would argue that RS has shown this very well as some of the character they have turned grey since we have met them are actually less interesting than they were before we met them and when they were portrayed as good or evil.

On the understanding characters motivations leads to better plots that depends on whether you are limited in some way or not. In general yes where you can have a story that goes on continuously it works fine. Myreque is not that story there is a very definitive stopping point and this seems to be true of all quest series now. I consider the view Jagex take on this to be harmful but since we have to limit it I feel that strong character motivations can actually harm them because for the sake of story they are forced to have characters do things they would never do.

On the caring about them part am I supposed to care about the Vampyres? I wasn't supposed to care about the 2 Myreque that Vanstrom slaughtered, Ivan was supposed to care, not us why would the Vampyres be any different?
Lewis
|
Quester
|
Scottish

06-Jan-2016 00:21:03 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2016 00:26:02 by Balustan

Roland Lyons
Mar Member 2014

Roland Lyons

Posts: 3,475 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Gotta agree with Balustan here, I understand that the vyres are only doing this to survive, but I have trouble trying to side with them when I know their success would be detrimental to humankind, especially the people of Misthalin.

We'd still be bloodbags, they'd still take tithes without contributing anything in return. She doesn't want peace between humans and vyres, she still wants our kind subjugated, she just wants to expand her territory.

If anything, her behavior and goals are just proving Lowernial correct. She realizes the vyres' current way of life is unsustainable, and at the end of the day, they're just animals trying to survive, but so are we. At least with Lowernial's idea, the people outside Morytania would be able to live peacefully.
I will protect Gielinor. Zaros has no love for its people.

-Saradomin, Polemarchos Autokrator

06-Jan-2016 05:52:26

Mod Rowley

Mod Rowley

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Balustan said :
The problem with addressing the advisor s to do so they need to deal with the Edicts as understood by the characters in the Myreque series, but Jagex don't have a clue what that is as evidenced by LoV.

I'm sorry, Balustan, but you're going to have to explain how you reached this conclusion.

We are (and I am) certainly not infallible, that much is true, but there is nothing in the (very short) dialogue regarding the Edicts at the end of TLoV that clashes with what the Edicts are believed to be by the characters in the Myreque series (nor with what the Edicts actually are/were).

I ask this only so that any confusion can be cleared up (be that on here or in-game).

06-Jan-2016 14:37:46

Quick find code: 341-342-431-65125527 Back to Top