RuneScape Forum Archive | Saradomin: Hate or Redeem?

Zulkir

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Mewzard said :
Come on guys, while disagreeing is fine, please don't turn my topic into some personal back and forth.

I made this topic to have discussion on this issue that is beneficial to both sides, to see where both sides come from, and to maybe open eyes to why both sides feel the way they do so they go into the quest with open minds.

C'mon Mewzard. He thinks you're the gutter dwelling oppressed class, it's irksome to keep seeing spammed everywhere, surely you agree?

But you're right, This is your thread made for decent discussion, I will refrain from further triggering.

Zarosian Lorehound

Master Questcape Owner

Inconsistent Completionist

18-Dec-2016 18:33:04 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 18:35:11 by Zulkir

Raxxess

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I mean in truth I never really understood what he is being redeemed from. I guess Naragun?

I think he is the only god that has actually redeemed themselves, what's really interesting about Saradomin and why is he probably the best written god we have is that he is brought forward as this god of ultra arrogance but in reality he seems to be the only god that truthfully wants to change their ways and admits the faults of their past and wants to reverse it.

Armadyl for instance my second favorite god admits his faults with the past of the aviansie being almost exterminated in the god wars and wants to move them to gielinor so they can survive but the first thing he does on his return is fight for what he views as justice and gets into a battle with Bandos not that he isn't justified but it seems his ideals got ahead of him in trying to right his wrongs.

Zamorak seemed to just shrug off what he did to the dwarves in the same sense that Zaros just shrugged off the empire.

Saradomin Lore clan

- Aegis of Saradomin

18-Dec-2016 19:30:08

Nov

2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes said :

And you've just proven, Saradomin's faction is the most marginalized of all(Moreso than Bandos or Zamorak) and needs to receive 0 negative lore, only positive from now on. Only the other gods who have not had their turn should be given negative lore and at the same rate Saradomin including yours if necessary.

"Zamorak isn't that marginalized"
*Literally spent the first 10 years of the game as the representation of Satan himself*

"Bandos doesn't receive that much bad lore"
*Is on the same level of monstrosity and world destruction as Tuska, QoA, and Xau-Tak*

CakeRider said :

All three of them are gathering forces to prepare to take the stone at all costs, all of them have been at war and murdered innocents, hell all three pretty much say the exact same thing. People just read what they want to read apparently. Or did you miss the part where Zamorak is putting on a show to get attention from his followers in preparation?

Love, I'm not comparing Saradomin and Zamorak, so lets leave mustache-man out of this.

It seems you didn't actually read Armadyl's dialogue. He clearly states that he regrets the use of armies, going so far as to call himself a hypocrite. Yes, they're all bringing forces, but you missed the point that I made. Armadyl is only bringing his bodygurads (GWD, and his Battlemage), and leaving the rest of his people be, because he doesn't want to be drawn into another war. Saradomin doesn't care about his people. They're zealots who will do whatever he says, and right now, he's saying sacrifice yourself for a hardboiled egg.

18-Dec-2016 19:33:02 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 19:50:16 by Summerleaf

Nov

2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Padomenes said :

You are a member of one of the most advantaged factions in terms of lore, come back when you are not.

I'm sorry my God doesn't kill people for not worshipping her. She's just mentally unstable, extremely naive, and is responsible for the reduction and death of countless people in the races of Mah. She also doesn't handle criticism well, and screams like a maniac when confronted. She also accidentally enslaves races through use of love, and made an entire planet of drug addicts, but ok.

18-Dec-2016 20:04:29 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 20:08:41 by Summerleaf

Dec

2023

Mewzard

Posts: 954 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Summerleaf said :
"Zamorak isn't that marginalized"
*Literally spent the first 10 years of the game as the representation of Satan himself*

"Bandos doesn't receive that much bad lore"
*Is on the same level of monstrosity and world destruction as Tuska, QoA, and Xau-Tak*

Love, I'm not comparing Saradomin and Zamorak, so lets leave mustache-man out of this.

It seems you didn't actually read Armadyl's dialogue. He clearly states that he regrets the use of armies, going so far as to call himself a hypocrite. Yes, they're all bringing forces, but you missed the point that I made. Armadyl is only bringing his bodygurads (GWD, and his Battlemage), and leaving the rest of his people be, because he doesn't want to be drawn into another war. Saradomin doesn't care about his people. They're zealots who will do whatever he says, and right now, he's saying sacrifice yourself for a hardboiled egg.

Zamorak and Bandos were created with the intent of going into villainous roles. Zamorak has been able, to some degree, to move past that, while Bandos was mostly stuck with it.

Saradomin went from the "good god" to the complex, but far more interesting morally grey area god. It was great from a character perspective (making him one of the most interesting gods at the time), but man, it turned quite a few people on Saradomin. I mean, when I went to see Saradomin, people were just talking about hatred and wanting to kill him. It was really sad.

Armadyl isn't bringing his people because there's not a lot of them left. This isn't about Saradomin not caring about his people (he's fighting for the stone precisely because he doesn't trust what will happen with the Stone if it falls into the wrong hands), but about Armadyl not wanting his race to disappear. He thought he lost them once, and doesn't want to risk them again. Humans are not at risk for extinction, so it's not even close to comparable.

This is why context is important.

18-Dec-2016 20:05:26 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 20:09:51 by Mewzard

Sep

2012

Gazebo

Posts: 1,318 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

From a purely pragmatic stance: redeem.
He, after all, is the only human god remaining now that V is dead.

And while I might feel more in home in the city of Seren, am more inpressed by the wings of Armadyl, have respect for the plight of Zamorak etc. etc. - at the end of the day I still am not crystal, bird or demon.

I am human. With human needs. Human thoughts. And a desire for humans to stay around and have a decent life.

It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo.
It catches you and eats you.

18-Dec-2016 20:05:54 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 20:18:52 by Gazebo

Nov

2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mewzard said :

Zamorak and Bandos were created with the intent of going into villainous roles. Zamorak has been able, to some degree, to move past that, while Bandos was mostly stuck with it.

Saradomin went from the "good god" to the complex, but far more interesting morally grey area god. It was great from a character perspective (making him one of the most interesting gods at the time), but man, it turned quite a few people on Saradomin. I mean, when I went to see Saradomin, people were just talking about hatred and wanting to kill him. It was really sad.

Armadyl isn't bringing his people because there's not a lot of them left. This isn't about Saradomin not caring about his people (he's fighting for the stone precisely because he doesn't trust what will happen with the Stone if it falls into the wrong hands), but about Armadyl not wanting his race to disappear. He thought he lost them once, and doesn't want to risk them again. Humans are not at risk for extinction, so it's not even comparable.

I would say Zammy is just as complex going from the person who betrayed his master, and destroyed an entire continent, and committed Zarosian Genocide (As Saradomin did), to someone with moral grey area in that he cares about evolutionary acceleration.

As for Saradomin vs. Armadyl, it shouldn't matter how much of a race is dead, if Armadyl is only risking 10 lives, and Saradomin is risking 10,000, that says a lot about their character.

Gazebo said :
at the end of the day I still am not crystal, bird or demon.
*Zammy is a Mahjarrat, not a demon

18-Dec-2016 20:17:32 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 20:19:21 by Summerleaf

Mazakon

Posts: 3,288 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If given the chance, I will opt to redeem him.

Ultimately, I have really come to believe his actions are truly done in the desire to protect his people, and Gielinor as a whole. This is also how I come to understand his most recent dialogue. He believes that Zamorak would cause another Forinthry incident, Zaros to do who-knows-what, Armadyl as too naive to not endanger others if he were possession of it, and Seren as too inactive.

So his beliefs and worldview do seem to be benevolent, but his actions are what give pause. Jagex has certainly made him one of the most interesting gods, right up there with Zaros and this has certainly piqued my curiosity of him as a character.

The pirates of the Granblue set sail!

18-Dec-2016 21:01:40

Aug

2023

William Witt

Posts: 12,465 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

CakeRider said :
and making his White Knights behind so much crap

Behind what, exactly? The Knights of Falador are easily the most honorable of his followers. They arguably epitomize what Saradomin *should* be to a greater degree than the god himself. (For example, in Wanted!, we see they believe that execution is "not the way of Saradomin&quot

If we were going off the knights' conduct and image of Saradomin alone, he'd be a saint.

The Asgarnian ale must flow.

18-Dec-2016 22:58:34 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 22:58:57 by William Witt

Zulkir

Posts: 7,343 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

William Witt said :
CakeRider said :
and making his White Knights behind so much crap

Behind what, exactly? The Knights of Falador are easily the most honorable of his followers. They arguably epitomize what Saradomin *should* be to a greater degree than the god himself. (For example, in Wanted!, we see they believe that execution is "not the way of Saradomin&quot

If we were going off the knights' conduct and image of Saradomin alone, he'd be a saint.

Yeah no, they're atrocious if you look behind the scenes.

I wonder where the rightful King of Falador, Vallance, has been all this time, and I do so wonder why the heir apparent, Analf hasn't taken the throne and had to instead flee to Burthorpe if his father is in such ailing health.

Amik Varze and his entire band of merry men look to of staged a curtained coup.

Zarosian Lorehound

Master Questcape Owner

Inconsistent Completionist

18-Dec-2016 23:05:23 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2016 23:06:41 by Zulkir

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Saradomin: Hate or Redeem?