RuneScape Forum Archive | Seren: Pulling Zaros' Rug

Apr

2023

SixOfOne

Posts: 83 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Questcaping said :
Hey, man, I ain't passing judgement on Zaros' actions here -- he had every right to get outta there, after all, and I reckon it's the right choice to have made. Just saying, Seren's the one who remained with Mah, maintained that connection; Zaros was the exact opposite. I'm betting that Seren's going to be chosen by the EGs to replace Mah in some respect -- hell, she's already had practice doing so, impersonating her to teach the Mahjarrat their rituals. That impersonation would be one hell of a piece of foreshadowing, wouldn't it?

(not too familiar with this particular region of lore, though -- correct me on anything and everything when I inevitably turn out to be wrong as all hell, and excuse me while I grind levels for those quest reqs..!)

Seren remained because she is mainly governed by emotion, not because she thought it was a better idea. Mah was her sick mother, so she felt the need to look after her even though it was hopeless, futile and effectively damned a race. Zaros is governed by logic so saw the futility of Serens' actions and the fact that Mah was overbearing, childish and in his opion not worth saving. So, for him staying was a stupid when he could instead go and make something of his existence.

Also, why would Seren impersonating Mah be of any value to the Elder Gods. They don't know about it. She hasn't had any practice at being Mah except in the loosest sense of the expression. Mah was capable of things far beyond Seren and all Seren did was say that she was Mah to a race that had no evidence to the contrary. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend to be one of those deaf-mutes

17-Jan-2017 18:27:49 - Last edited on 17-Jan-2017 18:31:15 by SixOfOne

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Questcaping said :
Hey, man, I ain't passing judgement on Zaros' actions here -- he had every right to get outta there, after all, and I reckon it's the right choice to have made. Just saying, Seren's the one who remained with Mah, maintained that connection; Zaros was the exact opposite. I'm betting that Seren's going to be chosen by the EGs to replace Mah in some respect -- hell, she's already had practice doing so, impersonating her to teach the Mahjarrat their rituals. That impersonation would be one hell of a piece of foreshadowing, wouldn't it?

(not too familiar with this particular region of lore, though -- correct me on anything and everything when I inevitably turn out to be wrong as all hell, and excuse me while I grind levels for those quest reqs..!)

The EGs won't 'choose' anyone to replace Mah. As Jas made quite clear when speaking to Zaros, not even she can grant somebody the ability to create life from nothing. Heck, she even considers it impossible for anyone to gain the ability to make life from nothing if they weren't born with it in the first place. And she is supposedly the most powerful and wise of the elder gods.

If it is even possible for someone to learn how to make life from nothing (aka: become an elder god), the elder gods aren't likely going to be the ones facilitating it.

17-Jan-2017 18:29:41

Apr

2023

SixOfOne

Posts: 83 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
Questcaping said :
Hey, man, I ain't passing judgement on Zaros' actions here -- he had every right to get outta there, after all, and I reckon it's the right choice to have made. Just saying, Seren's the one who remained with Mah, maintained that connection; Zaros was the exact opposite. I'm betting that Seren's going to be chosen by the EGs to replace Mah in some respect -- hell, she's already had practice doing so, impersonating her to teach the Mahjarrat their rituals. That impersonation would be one hell of a piece of foreshadowing, wouldn't it?

(not too familiar with this particular region of lore, though -- correct me on anything and everything when I inevitably turn out to be wrong as all hell, and excuse me while I grind levels for those quest reqs..!)

The EGs won't 'choose' anyone to replace Mah. As Jas made quite clear when speaking to Zaros, not even she can grant somebody the ability to create life from nothing. Heck, she even considers it impossible for anyone to gain the ability to make life from nothing if they weren't born with it in the first place. And she is supposedly the most powerful and wise of the elder gods.

If it is even possible for someone to learn how to make life from nothing (aka: become an elder god), the elder gods aren't likely going to be the ones facilitating it.

Exactly, and this is the crux of the matter. Neither Seren nor Zaros were born with the ability so according to Jas neither can become Elder Gods. It's not about whether Seren 'could be more' or that 'a flame can never be a star'. If either Seren or Zaros manage to create life from nothing then that makes them T1 and the Elder Gods won't have made them one.

Edit: I've literally just reiterated what Hguoh has said. So, I apologise. I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend to be one of those deaf-mutes

17-Jan-2017 18:34:42 - Last edited on 17-Jan-2017 18:36:10 by SixOfOne

Bloodcount

Posts: 560 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

What aspects of Seren's character are female? Is it that she merely refers to herself as a 'she?' No, she also has cosmetically female characteristics. She follows more of the female stereotypes, while Zaros follows the male ones (one of which is pig-headedness). Seren doesn't just use the pronouns, she sees herself as a mother to her elves, as she sees Mah as her mother.

It may not be that they are male in female in the sense of a sexually dichotomous race which compliment each other in a way that creates the possibility of progeny, but in a way, she is female.

Maybe these traits, which make her seem female, are what the Elders prefer.

20-Jan-2017 01:00:11

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Bloodcount said :
What aspects of Seren's character are female? Is it that she merely refers to herself as a 'she?' No, she also has cosmetically female characteristics. She follows more of the female stereotypes, while Zaros follows the male ones (one of which is pig-headedness). Seren doesn't just use the pronouns, she sees herself as a mother to her elves, as she sees Mah as her mother.

It may not be that they are male in female in the sense of a sexually dichotomous race which compliment each other in a way that creates the possibility of progeny, but in a way, she is female.

Maybe these traits, which make her seem female, are what the Elders prefer.

Again, it doesn't matter what the Elder Gods prefer: THEY CANNOT MAKE ANYBODY ELSE AN ELDER GOD!

To become an elder god, one must gain the power to produce life from nothing, which may very well be an impossible task. That being said, Seren is not pursuing such a goal while Zaros is. This makes Zaros's chances of becoming an elder god a nigh impossible long shot, but, as she isn't even trying to become one, the chance of Seren becoming an elder god is zero.

20-Jan-2017 05:04:55

Dec

2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

One thing I don't understand is why the elder gods think they can create life from nothing. They can't. They utilize their own energy and convert it into life. It's even completely silly to say you have the power to create stuff from nothing because it implies you poccess something and something can't be nothing. Even saying you caused something be created from nothing is silly because it implies your actions acted on something.

The elder gods can't be taken literally. They must mean that someone has to create life through their own power the same way the elder gods do. The interesting thing is Seren already has created life under own power with no other parts. Halund, pre dark lord for example. The other one works even better because she's her own being with her own identity.

20-Jan-2017 05:50:10 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2017 05:57:01 by Cthris

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Cthris said :
Halund, pre dark lord for example. The other one works even better because she's her own being with her own identity. Almost certainly not the same thing as the Elders' creation of life. If anything I think Haluned and Eluned are more similar to Tumeken's demigod kiddos; they're made of divine energy, not anima. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

20-Jan-2017 08:35:44 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2017 08:37:14 by Raleirosen

Dec

2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Raleirosen said :
Cthris said :
Halund, pre dark lord for example. The other one works even better because she's her own being with her own identity. Almost certainly not the same thing as the Elders' creation of life. If anything I think Haluned and Eluned are more similar to Tumeken's demigod kiddos; they're made of divine energy, not anima.
Why though. What identifiable marker can you produce that makes them different?

20-Jan-2017 12:43:53

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,069 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Cthris said :
Why though. What identifiable marker can you produce that makes them different?
Well, first and foremost there's the fact that it doesn't make any sense. Why would every single relevant character (especially Zaros, but also Seren herself) simply gloss over how Seren accomplished what Jas emphatically stated to be impossible -- unless it was a fundamentally different type of creation?

More concretely, there's this bit of dialogue...

Player: You created life?
Seren: From nothing? No. It would be better to say that I found a way to exist in two places at once. For a while I was both Haluned and I was Seren.

It's that simple. Are we clear? Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

20-Jan-2017 13:11:36 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2017 13:24:55 by Raleirosen

Dec

2023

Cthris

Posts: 5,206 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Raleirosen said :
Cthris said :
Why though. What identifiable marker can you produce that makes them different?
Well, first and foremost there's the fact that it doesn't make any sense. Why would every single relevant character (especially Zaros, but also Seren herself) simply gloss over how Seren accomplished what Jas emphatically stated to be impossible -- unless it was a fundamentally different type of creation?

More concretely, there's this bit of dialogue...

Player: You created life?
Seren: From nothing? No. It would be better to say that I found a way to exist in two places at once. For a while I was both Haluned and I was Seren.

It's that simple. Are we clear?
Not entirely. Like I said in my post I don't understand. Pretty much the only reason we are given for them not being the same is that people don't treat it the same.

And like I said, we can't expect anyone to create out of nothing because not evenness the elder gods do that. You could even say that all life created is a part of the elder god, since it comes from their own energy, and has its memories erased. Like haluends counterpart

20-Jan-2017 13:34:48 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2017 13:39:25 by Cthris

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Seren: Pulling Zaros' Rug