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Raxxess

Raxxess

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Raleirosen said :
Raxxess said :
Saradomin was truthfully in the right. First off Zamorak wasn't negotiating he had the stone and only wanted the world to live chaos, there was no give on his side he wanted the world to live in Chaos and was ready to use the stone to accomplish this.

We also know that Saradomin was on Gielinor before the other gods so he knows the Zamorak betrayed Zaros, he also knows that as soon as this happened Zamorak ordered the invasion of Saradominist lands. Wouldn't you be kind of ticked off if the guy who at every turn attacked you is trying to negotiate now that he finally bit off more than he can chew.

Was he trying to negotiate or not? Make up your mind.

To answer my own question, it wasn't a negotiation; Zimmityzammity was simply pleading with the other gods (not necessarily in a pathetic way; he still had the Stone to draw upon) to see things from his point of view. Saradomin is obviously incapable of such open-mindedness, Bandos didn't give a damn either way, and Armadyl saw *imzi***roo's vision as ultimately being too destructive and contradictory to his own beliefs.


Lol they are calling it negotiating, which I really don't think it is but if that what we are calling it. I mean like if you have a nuke by your side and say "hey this is how i want the world to be follow it" he didn't try to give a truce or anything. He could have just said my philosophy will rule in my lands your philosophy can rule yours.
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

24-Feb-2015 16:37:01

Neo Bestia

Neo Bestia

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Raleirosen said :
Raxxess said :
Saradomin was truthfully in the right. First off Zamorak wasn't negotiating he had the stone and only wanted the world to live chaos, there was no give on his side he wanted the world to live in Chaos and was ready to use the stone to accomplish this.

We also know that Saradomin was on Gielinor before the other gods so he knows the Zamorak betrayed Zaros, he also knows that as soon as this happened Zamorak ordered the invasion of Saradominist lands. Wouldn't you be kind of ticked off if the guy who at every turn attacked you is trying to negotiate now that he finally bit off more than he can chew.

Was he trying to negotiate or not? Make up your mind.

To answer my own question, it wasn't a negotiation; Zimmityzammity was simply pleading with the other gods (not necessarily in a pathetic way; he still had the Stone to draw upon) to see things from his point of view. Saradomin is obviously incapable of such open-mindedness, Bandos didn't give a damn either way, and Armadyl saw *imzimmityzimzimmityzimzi***roo's vision as ultimately being too destructive and contradictory to his own beliefs.


I'd disagree with Saradomin, but for the rest this is what I've been trying to point out.

Although I'd say Bandos actually fed up with Zamorak and that's why he didn't care.

24-Feb-2015 16:39:00

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Lord Bilrach said :
@Hguoh

Problem with what your saying is that Zemourgal and co. saw Saradomin take the stone the moment Zamorak left. Zamorak would have known about Saradomin having the stone immediately.


According to Zaros, he and Zamorak were completely alone. So no, they did not see the stone get taken.

24-Feb-2015 16:39:16

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Raxxess said :
Lol they are calling it negotiating, which I really don't think it is but if that what we are calling it. I mean like if you have a nuke by your side and say "hey this is how i want the world to be follow it" he didn't try to give a truce or anything. He could have just said my philosophy will rule in my lands your philosophy can rule yours.

I didn't get the same vibe of authoritarianism from that scene that you did, then. He wasn't making an ultimatum, he was just explaining how he saw things.

Neo Bestia said :
I'd disagree with Saradomin, but for the rest this is what I've been trying to point out.

Although I'd say Bandos actually fed up with Zamorak and that's why he didn't care.

Haha, to be honest I just used that opportunity to get in a dig at Smurfledoughmandore. I wasn't being quite that serious.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

24-Feb-2015 16:39:54 - Last edited on 24-Feb-2015 16:41:15 by Raleirosen

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said :
Raxxess said :
Lol they are calling it negotiating, which I really don't think it is but if that what we are calling it. I mean like if you have a nuke by your side and say "hey this is how i want the world to be follow it" he didn't try to give a truce or anything. He could have just said my philosophy will rule in my lands your philosophy can rule yours.

I didn't get the same vibe of authoritarianism from that scene that you did, then. He wasn't making an ultimatum, he was just explaining how he saw things.


Yeah, he was trying to say, 'Hey look guys, I'm not as vile and evil as Saradomin wants you to believe I am.' That being said, his methods are not always the most palatable.

24-Feb-2015 16:43:23

Raxxess

Raxxess

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Raleirosen said :
Raxxess said :
Lol they are calling it negotiating, which I really don't think it is but if that what we are calling it. I mean like if you have a nuke by your side and say "hey this is how i want the world to be follow it" he didn't try to give a truce or anything. He could have just said my philosophy will rule in my lands your philosophy can rule yours.

I didn't get the same vibe of authoritarianism from that scene that you did, then. He wasn't making an ultimatum, he was just explaining how he saw things.


Like I said before, the memory is the moment right before he blew up fort. Which was right before the end of the god wars. He had been at war for a whole age with these guys. If he really wanted to negotiate or talk it out, why not do that during the war or before it do avoid the bloodshed. Trying to talk it out after you have lost the war is not really explaining it. And having a nuke right next to is just like the cherry on top.
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

24-Feb-2015 16:44:33

The Mather1
May Member 2008

The Mather1

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Raxxess said :

Hallowvale is early second age, and it was the Icyene colony on Gielinor.


The Sleeping Seven:
Original message details are unavailable.
Though little is known of the Fourth age, especially in the land now known as Morytania...
...Eight centuries and a score into the history of our land there came a darkness which fell about the land once called Hallowvale.


From this we can tell that the book was written in the fifth age.
With the 4th age lasting ~4,000 years and the 2nd age lasting ~2,000 years, this means that obviously it isn't referring to 820 years before it was written, as that would still just be late 4th age, so it has to be saying that Hallowvale saw 820 years of Saradominist rule.
Then assuming Hallowvale fell at the beginning of the 3rd age, this would put the founding of Hallowvale at year ~1,200 of the 2nd age. There are then three options:
1. Saradomin willingly made a colony on the other side of an aggressively expanding superpower.
2. Zaros arrived first (contradicting established lore) and Saradomin made Hallowvale as is first settlement.
3. Forinthry was built in less than 820 years. (All ~3,300,000km^2 if we assume Gielinor is the same size as Earth. (Surprisingly, this is only a third of what the Romans managed in half the time, but they didn't start out with stone age tech.))

Of these, only 1 is likely.So then Zamorak was justified for invading as Hallowvale was 820 years of a figurative middle finger towards Forinthry.
"Abscondita est in Astra."

24-Feb-2015 18:00:08 - Last edited on 24-Feb-2015 18:01:18 by The Mather1

Raxxess

Raxxess

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The Mather1 said :
Raxxess said :

Hallowvale is early second age, and it was the Icyene colony on Gielinor.


The Sleeping Seven:
Original message details are unavailable.
Though little is known of the Fourth age, especially in the land now known as Morytania...
...Eight centuries and a score into the history of our land there came a darkness which fell about the land once called Hallowvale.


From this we can tell that the book was written in the fifth age.
With the 4th age lasting ~4,000 years and the 2nd age lasting ~2,000 years, this means that obviously it isn't referring to 820 years before it was written, as that would still just be late 4th age, so it has to be saying that Hallowvale saw 820 years of Saradominist rule.
Then assuming Hallowvale fell at the beginning of the 3rd age, this would put the founding of Hallowvale at year ~1,200 of the 2nd age. There are then three options:
1. Saradomin willingly made a colony on the other side of an aggressively expanding superpower.
2. Zaros arrived first (contradicting established lore) and Saradomin made Hallowvale as is first settlement.
3. Forinthry was built in less than 820 years. (All ~3,300,000km^2 if we assume Gielinor is the same size as Earth. (Surprisingly, this is only a third of what the Romans managed in half the time, but they didn't start out with stone age tech.))

Of these, only 1 is likely.So then Zamorak was justified for invading as Hallowvale was 820 years of a figurative middle finger towards Forinthry.


Hallowvale was founded in the second age, which means it survived bordering the Zarosian empire it was an Icyene colony. And no offense I understand god bias and all that, but there has to be a line somewhere and that in no way justifies invasion, if that was true every country would be at war all the time.
Saradomin Lore clan
- Aegis of Saradomin

24-Feb-2015 19:10:38

Hguoh

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Raxxess said :
Hallowvale was founded in the second age, which means it survived bordering the Zarosian empire it was an Icyene colony. And no offense I understand god bias and all that, but there has to be a line somewhere and that in no way justifies invasion, if that was true every country would be at war all the time.


Hallowvale could have been founded in the 2nd age, since the 3rd age didn't begin until Zamorak's return. It could have easily been founded right after Zamorak offed Zaros and then was taken to Infernus. This would make the settlement, at max, 19 years old by the time of Zamorak's return if it was founded after the fall of Zaros.

Now, we know from Zemouregal's memory that upon his return, Zamorak declared the territory of the former Zarosian empire to be his and set about claiming it from the gods who had invaded it in his absence.

Considering that he was the one to topple the former regime, I can understand why he felt the land was his to own. Saradomin's settlement of Hallowvale would have been looked at as an act of invasion into Zamorak's 'rightful' (in his opinion) territory.

Of course, the earliest Hallowvale could have been founded was, as Mather said, the year 1200 of the second age, blatantly in the way of the expanding Zarosian empire. This is easily considered an act of agression. I, however, prefer my theory.

24-Feb-2015 20:21:24 - Last edited on 24-Feb-2015 20:26:38 by Hguoh

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