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Pupppy II

Pupppy II

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(cont.)

Add that to the fact that the commander Mazakon in the story is already hurt: he has bandages (or replacements?) made of clay from Uzer.

At least momentously zamorakians held the north, and I'd guess saradominist held some kind of peace or alliance with the menaphites who did live in the desert as well.

If we jump into another quest, Shadow of the Storm, we find out eventually the zamorakians, under lead of the elder demon Tammaron, did reach and destroy Uzer at the end (he died, but his demons went further south to destroy the menaphites of Ullek then).


if we go back to the Original message details are unavailable.
you should be glad your village is in Saradomin's territory. Do you know the Army of Zamorak's recruitment tactics?"

Mazakon's authority made Tasgall sound like a child arguing with his elders. "Kidnapping, torture and brainwashing, I know. I am grateful to the Army of Saradomin"


Well that is pretty generic and can mean many things, but one course you can take is that Mazakon means of personal experience of seeing zamorak kidnapping and brainwashing individuals.

Perhaps that could relate to the zamorakians having taken icyene lands for the first time, turning most of its icyenes, who did surrender (don't know when) after king Ascertes was kidnapped and held hostage.

They'd then be turned into vampyres mostly (brainwashed) [but some could always escape like himself]; also it does explain the corpses examine of vyre corpses "tortured soul"; or how saradominist Columbarum can set their spirits free; or how they do also thank and reward you there.



About Mod Osborne mention of the 'vampyre invasion' on his story video, it is from fourth age indeed, but can mean two things:

Either it is that icyenes held their beautiful reign at the region and Drakan invaded it from their lands.

Or the fact that Drakan, at 1100-1200, invaded mishtalin, being only sent away by the Seven Priestly Warriors.


ugh cont.

03-Aug-2013 00:21:15 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 00:50:51 by Pupppy II

Pupppy II

Pupppy II

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(cont.)

I believe it is still possible that at late third age the lands remained under control of Drakan ever since that story's event, and so did in early early fourth age. But believe queen Efartay held a rebelion/revolution to temporaly send the vampyres away to remake/build her lands of Hallowvale.

That could be either a cause (moving the vampyre army away to attack humans made them vulnerable enough to Efaritay strike) or a consequence (they retreated for new land as base) of the vampyre invasion to the humans of east at the same date.



Lastly, we do have small documentation of the state of the lands at second age, from the Declaration of Viggora.

Original message details are unavailable.
The service of our lord took us on long expeditions, exterminating Saradominist filth, and the other generals had time to forget Viggora's Folly. Secretly, I planned to return. I could augment my fortress, add-higher levels and deeper dungeons, fortify the surrounding lands, make it a truly magnificent achievement, and thus earn respect for humankind.


So, the Slayer Tower was Viggora's base for attacking the saradominist filth. Their location's options:

- west: impossible. Senntiten, the capital of the zarosian empire, most powerful city of the world was held there.
- south: unlikely. As the pharaoh queen has said, menaphites were already there, fighting alone the zarosian armies (it seems).
- north-westish: perhaps zarosians did not hold Forinthy yet at the time, but I'd say it is unlikely, since they got so many cities (ancient teleport ruins) around the area.

- east: likely location to me. So there are saradominists in the east, you could take a guess and say the icyenes of queen Efaritay were already there, in battle to not let Zaros spread his influence

cont.

03-Aug-2013 00:32:07 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 00:53:08 by Pupppy II

Pupppy II

Pupppy II

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(cont.)

Do not forget that Saradomin had to have held some territory at third age as his base. Asgarnia/Mishtalin was in the hand of the zarosian empire, Tirawn at Seren's as always; fremenniks had their lands according to Char's quest lore; Kandarin at Armadyl's most likely (location of the temple that held his staff, so probably his territory); leaving out the current lands now called as Morytania as saradomin's base at Gielinor, at second age.

So eventually at third age Drakan would have managed to invade and take it over for the first time, with further power given by Zamorak, his new god and master, as a reward of his help to take off Zaros from his throne, with a few others such as Viggora and Tammaron (last part told at Curse of Zaros miniquest; and Zamorak had to promise Drakan some power, I take he'd help him conquer and rule Morytania at last [something that Zaros apparently failed at])

I think that's it what I wanted to say ^_^


~pupppy

03-Aug-2013 00:45:36 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 00:55:11 by Pupppy II

DoogleHallow

DoogleHallow

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Thats one hell of an argument... I feel an overwhelming urge to tear it apart um, debate :) I want to say that I think your idea is still decent, I like to argue and I don't want it to get heated like last time

As for territories, the southern halves of Asgarnia and Misthalin are not confirimed Zarosian and seem like more likely areas for Saradomin to have settled if his entry to Gielinor was at Entrana. In addition, aside from the Icyene Saradomins followers would likely find it difficult to cross over the Salve to the Desert with all the cliffs lining most of the way and would instead rely on Silvarea to move large numbers of troops. The same may well be true of the other armies, the only species I can think of that could cross the Salve easily are Demons, Aviansie, Vyres and Mahjarrat, so whenever we consider Morytanias place in the geography of the war it would probably revolve around Silvarea.

As for Mazakon, it could mean that but as you say it is very generic so its not very strong evidence until we have some more lore to back it up.

I hadn't thought of Mod Osbournes comment in that way, when I heard it I admit I jumped a little inside because I thought he had thrown me a bone. Its an odd metaphor to use it if its referring to the Priestly Warriors though. It may be my sleepy brain that's not working, but I cant work out what you mean in the cause/consequence paragraph and the one before it.

Its not stated that Viggoras Folly is "for" exterminating Saradomnist filth, and it's worth mentioning that "long" expeditions could mean that he is travelling far away to do it. Also, would Zaros entrust the watch over Saradomins lands to a mere human?

Semi-related, Os said Zamorak had the Stone once during the 3rd Age and he used it that one time to destroy Forinthry. I'm running out of letters, summary:
Z takes SoJ, hides it at Daeylt, experiments, Vyres move it to For., QE takes Mory with vyres weakened, For. destroyed, G wakes. Feedback pls :)

03-Aug-2013 12:33:35

Pupppy II

Pupppy II

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About saradominist lands: ya indeed Saradomin came out at Entrana, but that doesn't mean he even had any human followers there back then. Entrana monks could have moved in much later.

Southern asgarnia and misthalin make sense to have some saradominists due to Entrana, but still they could even have been just an minority in the lands of the Zarosian Empire. (seemingly his followers don't kill for religious cause) [that if there were saradominists at all there back then]

Sorry but doesn't make sense to Viggora Fortress be there to attack saradominist at misthalin? Senntiten is on the way, it'd be the complete opposite site. He'd need to have a purpose to make a fortress of that size, or he'd be mocked by the other generals even more.

By the way, it is not said Zaros does not trust or take Viggora as capable, only the other generals did as far as I know. Viggora got zaros a whole human army after all.

About long journeys, in game stories the distances don't take the same time to pass, for example it is said it takes a whole day to travel from Falador to Edgeville. Considering the city is at extreme south-east, it still one hell of a journey for viggora to reach them.


cont.

03-Aug-2013 14:20:47 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 14:35:37 by Pupppy II

Pupppy II

Pupppy II

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(cont.)

Next, I never said many saradominist humans lived on the morytania lands back then at second age (: [either way they wouldn't need to pass its hard borders many times if it was their main, isolated country]

From Padomenes dialog, you can take the icyenes were already Saradomin's main forces. He and Zilyana partook on the 'first war', which was probably the naragi one, older than Gielinor itself.

Morytania lands are perfect for icyenes, and queen Efaritay, to accomodate at. Few other races could pass over its natural borders, as you said, making it safer from the dangers of the zarosians and others. But still, you can always sail through waters to have more followers reach it, and Saradomin himself could always teleport more if needed.


If you meant that for third age's wars, well we know after Senntiten fell from zarosian hands saradominists took it over to create a new city named Saranthum. Humans stay west, icyenes east, not much need of moviment between the two.

But of course, if they were attacked, it'd end bad due its lack of easy terrains to walk on. Probably the reason why suppposedly the human armies could not rush and save the icyenes from the vampyre attacks in time.

But still we know humans can pass it in large numbers, eventually, as saw on the Barrows Army attacking morytania later at third age.

cont.

03-Aug-2013 14:29:15 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 14:36:18 by Pupppy II

Pupppy II

Pupppy II

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cont.

DoogleHallow said :


Semi-related, Os said Zamorak had the Stone once during the 3rd Age and he used it that one time to destroy Forinthry. I'm running out of letters, summary:
Z takes SoJ, hides it at Daeylt, experiments, Vyres move it to For., QE takes Mory with vyr


Why would vampyres take the SoJ away from morytania to Forinthy if that was their territory? They probably knew it was powerful.

We have to remember Saradomin did also have possession of the SoJ many times. He had it back then when, at ROTM cutscene, forinthy was still green and Annakarl was his (about to be taken by k'rill tho).

I partially agree with you theory; I think sarah had it back then wherever that was; but eventually Zamorak found and took it. He'd then use it to destroy Forinthy, and send it hid at morytanian lands to be protected by Drakan.

But I guess eventually Saradomin takes it back again. Because we know that in the time Guthix woke, it was Saradomin who had it; keeping it at the cavern-fortress that is now known as Fist of GUthix.

Maybe Efaritay/other icyene troops could have helped him recover it from morytanian lands somehow ya :)

Or maybe the Barrows Brother's campaign was more successful than we once thought o:


edit: tbh the barrows brother campaign does make sense now. Okay the brothers themselves did not reach it, but maybe they were distraction enough to the vyres for other saradominists to go and take it back to their god;

we know they held a human army, so maybe the icyenes were working behind the lines as spies to locate and take the SoJ back while others fought :)


but, if Efaritay took the lands then to the vyres weakness, where could Drakan have hid to? Had to be somewhere at/near morytania so he could move fast to take it all over in one move eventually.

03-Aug-2013 14:45:51 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 14:57:26 by Pupppy II

[#TWA99I4ZX]

[#TWA99I4ZX]

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^ As we've said in previous posts, Drakan could have hid in the Burgh de Rott tomb. The Vampyric decor and the tome inside strongly suggest that it was Drakan who slept there. The tome talks about a great loss, then a long rest, then the counter-attack. That fits perfectly well with Drakan being expelled from Hallowvale in the 3rd Age, resting 800 years or so to recover (hence the eight centuries of Queen Efaritay's rule described in the Paterdomus library books ), and then taking the Castle via a surprise attack from underground, in order to ' regain these lands . This is again courtesy of the Paterdomus library information and the tome inside the tomb (lol).

To add further credence to this timeline, Vanescula's letter to Safalaan , found in the very same tomb, talks about Morytania being 'free centuries ago', as opposed to being free thousands ago. Given that the 4th Age alone lasted well over a thousand years, Vanescula must have been talking about Morytania being 'free' (i.e. under Efaritay) during the 4th Age.

A big elephant in the room that you're not addressing is Vertida's information from BoD:

[qfc id=]
We believe the Icyene came to Morytania centuries ago to fight the Vampyres .
[/qfc]

Now, you might throw your last dice and bet on Vertida's 'belief' being just that, but remember that the good people of Meiyerditch have no access to history books, just what they've been told by their ancestors, so it would have been unreasonable of Mod Ana to write that Vertida definitely knew this. But what no one can do is deny that the hard evidence (not speculation) I highlighted above overwhelmingly favours the dual-conquest theory that spans both the 3rd and 4th ages.

I enjoy speculation and theory, but I'm afraid that we all must submit to evidence being the chief story-tellers.

P.S. Please forgive me if I sound contentious. I really don't mean to be.

03-Aug-2013 15:33:17 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 15:36:50 by [#TWA99I4ZX]

[#TWA99I4ZX]

[#TWA99I4ZX]

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In other BIG news from Mod Osborne's recent livestream:

* Haemalchemy will be featured in future Morytania Elder God content.

* Drakan is in his tower in Darkmeyer. Mod Ana has plans to feature him in the next Morytania quest.

I'm not sure how the Elder Gods will tie into that topic as it is so bound up with the Vampyres themselves who are in turn bound up with the Myreque series. Does this mean that the Vampyres will survive the end of the series? It must do, and this tells us something about the series' conclusion.

As for Drakan, we more or less already knew this. I hope that Mod Ana or whoever won't rush the Myreque series finale in favour of this new Elder God content.

=============================================

On a lesser note...

* TWW wasn't voiced because of the number of characters, which would drive costs up too much since those characters are also in other pieces of content and Jagex would need to retain those voice actors/actresses. It also adds weeks further of development. However, all future 6th age content will be voiced.

I'm not entirely sure that I'm comfortable with the Myreque series characters being voice-acted. All these years I've had my own ideas about how each one does (or will) sound, but at least we can mute voices now... right?

03-Aug-2013 15:54:26

Pupppy II

Pupppy II

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I don't have a problem with voicing of any characters, we will easily accept how they sound like and it will feel easier to tell their emotions :)


but about Vertida's Original message details are unavailable.
We believe the Icyene came to Morytania centuries ago to fight the Vampyres.


if that quote is right, then the vampyres held Morytania at early fourth age, and the icyenes came out from somewhere to attack, rebel or whatever.

That would put to deny the books of the library of Paterdomus, that say Icyenes were there (Efaritay held the Hallowvale green pretty kingdom) and it was the vampyres that came in and attacked.

Unless he means there were brought icyene reinforcements from another region or world.



But about Drakan's hideout, I mean all his forces :P Ya it does makes sense that Lowerniel could sleep at that burgh de rott tomb, but there are at least a few others who are pure vampyres, and had to hide at other/bigger places I'd think (namely Victor, Ranis and Vanescula Drakans; Malak and Vanstrom most likely; as well as perhaps all the vyrelords).

What if vampyres simply hid on Drakan's Castle? The place is giant and mysterious; it could have been locked or feared by the icyenes to never open up perhaps.

I'd think the tomb of Burgh was solely for Vanescula (as we found there her letter to Safalaan right? (i dont remember for sure lol)); perhaps she did have different plans than Lowerniel himself since a long time (that of course assuming she is not a turned Efaritay then, nor daughter or w/e)

03-Aug-2013 17:43:16 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2013 17:47:49 by Pupppy II

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