RuneScape Forum Archive | Would Zaros help Seren?

Jul

2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

to help or not to help, that's the question.

i dunno, but one thing i do know is that it will be the world guardian job to do it.

"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

26-Mar-2015 17:15:20

Vardan

Posts: 1,237 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The Mather1 said :
Last Prophet said :

Viggora - Viggora, for all his poor decisions, was no idiot. This "preconception" led him to participate in the single most devastating coup in Gielinor's history. It becomes difficult for me to believe that his convictions were misplaced, given his position within the empire.

Perjour - Aren't you overlooking his enchanted journal? The one that, lest we forget, Zaros required him to carry?

Senliten - I don't entirely understand your rationale here. Are you suggesting that the opinion of a god's enemy be written off simply because he or she lacks an insider's perspective? You do understand, I hope, that that would invalidate half the lore among the factions?

And, while we're at it, let's not fail to mention Senntisten's secret police force, headed by none other than Sliske himself. Surely a free and just nation would have no need of such an insidious necromaniac to maintain order, right?
Regardless of Viggora's achievements, he is confirmed to have been blinded so much by his belief that humans weren't valued that he failed to see that they were. This isn't just an assumption, both mods and lore confirm that Viggora was misinformed.

Perjour's journal was carried because Zaros wanted to see what happened. If you've ever paid attention to Zaros, you'll know he's a curious god. Zaros isn't capable of what Perjour feared, so Perjour was definitely wrong about the purpose of the book.

And yes, you should disregard any accusations made by any faction towards towards their enemy. Because of bias, they cannot be trusted.

As for the Praefectus Praetorio, Zaros knew nothing of his misdeed, he just told the guy who was good at sneaking around and collecting information to do so for Forinthry.
I recall Mod Jack saying something to the contrary. Humans suffered in extremely poor conditions in Zaros' empire, and were abused by other species.

We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

26-Mar-2015 17:58:38

Jul

2012

Hexie Kazumi

Posts: 3,023 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"Humans suffered in extremely poor conditions in Zaros' empire, and were abused by other species."

Perhaps they did. But not at Zaros' hand. Zaros was confirmed to be an inattentive leader. He focused too much on the wider world, and did not see what was happening within his own walls. He allowed people to pretty much do whatever if it didn't impact the whole society in any noticeable way. He would miss the nuances of what is going on- funny considering how he is a master of nuance, yet simultaneously blind to it.

But to bring this back in a little bit to the initial question "Would Zaros help Seren?"

I think so. Because Seren will be of equal power to him once restored, and Zaros and Seren, whatever disagreements they've had, see each other as something close to kin. There is some bitterness over Mah, on Seren's end, but based on how Seren gave Zaros the World Gate, for example, Seren does not hate him. On the other end, Zaros is incapable of holding a proper grudge. So, really, if it would befit saving the world, he would easily help Seren.

Whether Seren would accept his help is another question, but also worth asking. Personally, I think the player will have to be the peacekeeper to stop Seren from becoming overemotional, and we would have to talk her into accepting it.

27-Mar-2015 00:51:52

May

2008

The Mather1

Posts: 1,172 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Vardan said :
I recall Mod Jack saying something to the contrary. Humans suffered in extremely poor conditions in Zaros' empire, and were abused by other species.
We're talking about a species here. They're not mutually exclusive. The human upper class were the administrators of the empire, the lower class were the workforce.

And their abuse was for the most part not at the hands of other races, but at the hands of the other humans. Humans took advantage of humans to increase their own wealth and standings, same as in Earth's history. The other races didn't even have that much of a footprint in the settlements, due to extremely low numbers compared to humans (except the Avernic who were treated more like weapons and tools than people).

"Abscondita est in Astra."

27-Mar-2015 03:19:53

Vardan

Posts: 1,237 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hexie Kazumi said :
"Humans suffered in extremely poor conditions in Zaros' empire, and were abused by other species."

Perhaps they did. But not at Zaros' hand. Zaros was confirmed to be an inattentive leader . He focused too much on the wider world, and did not see what was happening within his own walls. He allowed people to pretty much do whatever if it didn't impact the whole society in any noticeable way. He would miss the nuances of what is going on- funny considering how he is a master of nuance, yet simultaneously blind to it.

But to bring this back in a little bit to the initial question "Would Zaros help Seren?"

I think so. Because Seren will be of equal power to him once restored, and Zaros and Seren, whatever disagreements they've had, see each other as something close to kin. There is some bitterness over Mah, on Seren's end, but based on how Seren gave Zaros the World Gate, for example, Seren does not hate him. On the other end, Zaros is incapable of holding a proper grudge. So, really, if it would befit saving the world, he would easily help Seren.

Whether Seren would accept his help is another question, but also worth asking. Personally, I think the player will have to be the peacekeeper to stop Seren from becoming overemotional, and we would have to talk her into accepting it.
If he can't guide an empire, how can he guide a planet?

If he can't keep track of Zamorak and Sliske, how is he supposed to guide all gods and mortals on Gielinor?

We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

27-Mar-2015 14:41:09 - Last edited on 27-Mar-2015 14:46:18 by Vardan

Vardan

Posts: 1,237 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The Mather1 said :
Vardan said :
I recall Mod Jack saying something to the contrary. Humans suffered in extremely poor conditions in Zaros' empire, and were abused by other species.
We're talking about a species here. They're not mutually exclusive. The human upper class were the administrators of the empire, the lower class were the workforce.

And their abuse was for the most part not at the hands of other races, but at the hands of the other humans . Humans took advantage of humans to increase their own wealth and standings, same as in Earth's history. The other races didn't even have that much of a footprint in the settlements, due to extremely low numbers compared to humans (except the Avernic who were treated more like weapons and tools than people).
Source?

I recall Jack specifically mentioning for instance that demons would eat homeless humans and vampyres would feed on them. Sliske tormented them for entertainment. The other races also enjoyed a higher place in Zarosian society, whereas humans were mostly at the bottom. The ones in Sennisten were a bit of an exception to my understanding.

We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

27-Mar-2015 14:45:18

Jul

2012

Hexie Kazumi

Posts: 3,023 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"If he can't guide an empire, how can he guide a planet?

If he can't keep track of Zamorak and Sliske, how is he supposed to guide all gods and mortals on Gielinor?"

Glad you asked. (inserts shameless plug)
[qfc id= 341-342-101-65594744*Zaros and Seren Rule?[/qfc*

"I recall Jack specifically mentioning for instance that demons would eat homeless humans and vampyres would feed on them. Sliske tormented them for entertainment. The other races also enjoyed a higher place in Zarosian society, whereas humans were mostly at the bottom. The ones in Sennisten were a bit of an exception to my understanding."

I dunno about what Jack's saying, but I do know that Zaros admitted to being inattentive to the people, and far more focused on global issues. He assumed that the people he trusted would be true to his example. He later admits the flaw of assuming anything of someone's character. But damage was already done. People were tortured and he was betrayed. Neither of which were things he expected, because, again, he assumed things of his followerd.

28-Mar-2015 22:05:34

Mar

2014

Allicient

Posts: 28 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

and all Truth too whole zaros and seren and zammy retro spec*. I think of it like this it was good zaros was betrayed cause apparently zaros only learns from seeing/ or hearing and how long he attempts at keeping it at bay or not too. For instance for all vampyres and demons and sliske as secret police he probly back then coulden't judged character as well, or was busy with others gods too deploy what was happening in own empire. He allied himself with dark creatures with out knowledging thats going back fire. there was another good outcome if he didn't um lets say allied himself with mahjarrats he woulden't have as good as devout as azzy or wah or athankos they hadn't thought bad thoughts of him yet. You have also have think like this seren and zaros came from abusive home there going be quite naive. Like a little boy running from home only accept candy from a stranger. Now, i can understand why he put sliske and zammy as high rank but think like this how does someone know a personality of a person unless they spend time with them? and zaros empire was bad and good same with all other empires you got think like this. we're you living how good was it before 1500's? exactly history was darker then was today cause of resources and just starting out as cillivazation it takes time too build. Seren empire was good at first cause 1. she met guthix what made her look differently at other gods and tried her best keep her and herself away from other gods, 2.she kept a good relashionship of her followers so able keep them in check cause she wasen't on war with other gods unlike zaros. 3. but this was her donefall she was too much umm best word for it I guess nice? so when guthix banished gods she shattered her self cause she wanted attuned for her sins which was basically listening too a old fart and his past that she shoulden't be with the elves so in secret she was and that she probly coulden't handle edicts we don't about that yet.

29-Mar-2015 02:28:47

Mar

2014

Allicient

Posts: 28 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I think zaros though allying himself with dark creatures was worn* . but think like this how does one switch followers quickly that specifieds ones needs -fake death- but it was again good thing cause you know who there for you.I think that be perfect like fresh start. whole seren thing going crazy I know she probly will or not be insane but more or less not be old self like in other ages ,same as zaros think hes defiantly not same person as he was before you learn from mistakes. then theres people who don't learn. and whole zammy thing he thought he could do better it like other gods it either there philosphy or the high way your pick mate. The only person you can follow whos not really a god ,and don't really cares if don't follow them is sliske perhaps he'll learn what it is too make enemy outta everyone or make yourself like a target maby he trying see if he could do better then what lucien with whole you dare defy a god! haha or zaros making yourself a target in 2nd age and seeing if goes well and have something troll about. Its all based on your cards and other mistakes how prevent it I guess or your willing prevent it some gods denied some of there mistakes soo kinda hard as redemption? Guthix admitted too his mistakes so first thing too do when you made ton of mistakes use a scape goat a.k.a throw all chores of trying redeem yourself and do a cope out (via sucidel) closest person too you. A.k.a world guardian. So good job!we're first person too do scape goat time for a god our rewards? absolutly nothing but double bladed edge sword power and everyone trying get in good with your opinion make you follow them for there own ends. Best part we didn't even have a option say no, so just wonderful. But everything up for debate

29-Mar-2015 02:43:59

Jul

2012

Hexie Kazumi

Posts: 3,023 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

From everything you said, i basically see an agreement with my point. That Zaros and Seren have both grown as leaders since ages past, and that the failures they had were not because they were evil, or tyrannical, but rather because they were more like young kids exiled from home (abusive home, like you said), if those young kids have massive amounts of power. They did not know anything of the way the world works. Seren's naive decision to try and eliminate Death, and Zaros endless trust of his followers were naive, childlike decisions. And both of these decisions caused immense harm. Seren's causing the birth of Dark Elves, the Death Spirit, and the corruption of the elves, and Zaros' causing the downfall of his empire.

29-Mar-2015 09:23:15

Forums

Would Zaros help Seren?