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SPOILERS - ZAROS' PLAN

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Zulkir

Zulkir

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Hazeel said :
Hguoh said :
Zaros was demonstrating that the ritual would transfer the power to the Mahjarrat (choosing the Mahjarrat closest to him).

You mean Akthanakos? The one that was dying, needed the ritual more, was Zarosian and could be more trusted with?

Nope, he meant Khazard, the one literally nearest to him, picked purely to make an example of the exact same ritual they preformed during the pact and like it or not for plot reasons to reveal Zamorak is his father in a semi impactful way.
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30-Nov-2016 20:11:29 - Last edited on 30-Nov-2016 20:12:07 by Zulkir

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Zulkir said :
Hazeel said :
Hguoh said :
Zaros was demonstrating that the ritual would transfer the power to the Mahjarrat (choosing the Mahjarrat closest to him).

You mean Akthanakos? The one that was dying, needed the ritual more, was Zarosian and could be more trusted with?

Nope, he meant Khazard, the one literally nearest to him, picked purely to make an example of the exact same ritual they preformed during the pact and like it or not for plot reasons to reveal Zamorak is his father in a semi impactful way.

Well ignoring the fact they were in a circle and technically nobody was closer than anyone else, Akthanakos was to Zaros' right in equal proximity to Khazard, who was at his left. Looking back, it seems almost cruel of him to ignore Akthankos' plight. =P Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

30-Nov-2016 20:43:47

Raleirosen

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Hguoh said :
Zaros was demonstrating that the ritual would transfer the power to the Mahjarrat (choosing the Mahjarrat closest to him). No, even if that was true Zaros wouldn't simply choose the Mahjarrat closest to him (or one at random) without considering the ramifications of his choice. Not logical.

Hguoh said :
You know, the events as we saw them rather than inventing some conspiracy that barely makes sense (especially given Zaros's pretty much states he planned for Zammy to show up). Lol, yes. He planned for Zamorak to show up... and then what? He didn't account for what Zamorak would do once he was there? And then like a complete lemon, Zaros just happens to target his son and provoke him? The "conspiracy" that I'm putting forth makes a thousand times more sense.

Hguoh said :
Let's pretend Zaros actually intended to drain the Mahjarrat after the ritual, where would that have left him? No idea what you're talking about, that has nothing to do with my theory.

Hguoh said :
Certainly seems like he fully intended to kill Zamorak to me, and it was only the unexpected empowering of the Mahjarrat that changed his mind. Not premeditated in the least. Obviously he said all that to give off a false impression. Kind of like the false impressions he gave to the Mahjarrat and the Ilujanka, or his ingratiation to us during FOTG, or his blatant deception regarding Mah's intentions during CoM, etc.

Or you could argue that we should take what Zaros says and does at face value. Totally logical, Captain. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

01-Dec-2016 02:19:00 - Last edited on 01-Dec-2016 02:33:11 by Raleirosen

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said :
No, Zaros wouldn't simply choose the Mahjarrat closest to him without considering the ramifications of his choice. Not logical.

Let's see, what other reasons could he have had? Well, there's the obvious bit about choosing to empower someone who would usually be considered an enemy as choosing an ally or neutral party proves very little compared to that. There's also the bit where Khazard was literally the furthest one of Zammy's faction from Zamorak, making it more likely that Zaros could finish his demonstration before Zamorak could stop him (you know, to avoid the whole 'mortal combat' scenario that resulted).

Raleirosen said :
Lol, yes. He planned for Zamorak to show up... and then what? He didn't account for what Zamorak would do once he was there? And then like a complete lemon, Zaros just happens to target his son and provoke him? The "conspiracy" that I'm putting forth makes a thousand times more sense.

Zaros literally gloats that Zamorak is afraid of him and Zamorak doesn't deny it:

Zamorak: Do not underestimate me. I defeated you once, I will defeat you again.
Zaros: And yet the fear in your voice betrays your words. There is doubt in your eyes, not fire. You lack the confidence and naivety you wielded the first time you challenged me.
Zamorak: But my power has increased exponentially. What I have lost in naivety I have gained in wisdom.

This would also depend on Zaros somehow knowing that that Khazard was Zammy's son. When you consider that Azzy, Akthanakos, Nex, and Char were imprisoned prior to Khazard's birth and Wahisietel doesn't hide the fact that he's been excluded from Zaros's inner circle, your entire conspiracy revolves around Zaros somehow figuring out that Khazard is Zamorak's son when literally none of his sources of information could have realistically known that.

01-Dec-2016 02:46:45

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said :
Obviously he said all that to give off a false impression. Kind of like the false impressions he gave to the Mahjarrat and the Ilujanka, or his ingratiation to us during FOTG, or his blatant deception regarding Mah's intentions during CoM, etc.

Or you could argue that we should take what Zaros says and does at face value. Totally logical, Captain.

Oh yes, the god who openly gloated to Zamorak in the threshold of Zammy's mind due to his total overconfidence of his success rather than finishing Zamorak off is definitely going to spend the time pretending that he's going to kill Zamorak and anticipated that Zammy will willingly sacrifice himself to empower the Mahjarrat. Especially when, all this time, Mah is draining not only him, but all the Mahjarrat he convinced to come to Freneskae and needs to save himself from oblivion at her hands.

Yeah, oh so convincing that he'd waste time with theatrics when his own survival is in danger.

And heck, even Seren admits when you come out of Mah's nightmares that ending Mah's existence was the best thing she could do for Mah all along, though it is tough on Seren regardless:

Seren: I realise now that there is only one thing that can be done. I am so sorry, mother. I think I always knew in my heart that it would come to this. If I had only known sooner I could have saved you so much pain. You deserved better. You gave us all your love, in your own way. So great and complex, forever doomed to be misunderstood. Forgive me. My creator, my inspiration...

Something Zaros reiterates when Seren confronts him:

Zaros: She is truly gone? Then we did her a kindness, Seren. Her entire existence was pain.

Are you truly that sure Mah didn't want to die when even Seren, who has sworn to oppose everything Zaros does, says otherwise?

01-Dec-2016 03:06:21

Hguoh

Hguoh

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But hey, even I think it's a deception. But here's the thing, such a deception inherently speeds up the process of commencing the ritual to save his own skin as it quickly deals with the dissent from those who would sympathize with Mah (as Azzanadra and Akthanakos both do).

Extending/instigating a fight with Zamorak does not do this. And as we've heard from the Mods repeatedly, one of if not the most pertinent thing to Zaros is ensuring his own survival.

01-Dec-2016 03:09:03

Zack3

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Hguoh said :
This would also depend on Zaros somehow knowing that that Khazard was Zammy's son. When you consider that Azzy, Akthanakos, Nex, and Char were imprisoned prior to Khazard's birth and Wahisietel doesn't hide the fact that he's been excluded from Zaros's inner circle, your entire conspiracy revolves around Zaros somehow figuring out that Khazard is Zamorak's son when literally none of his sources of information could have realistically known that.
Just want to point something out, u do realize that despite wahi not interacting with Zaros he does interact with Azzanadra, and that wahi has being investigating the other mahjarrat for a long time, and if I'm not mistaken he even pretended to be zamorakian to survive previous rituals, and that he could have shared the knowledge he gathered to Azzanadra who could have told the intel to Zaros.

Also by trying to empower a Zamorakian who are enemies of Zaros, it obviously would have ended in conflict no matter what as it would have seemed as an attack at first look by the zamorakians as it happened, since Zamorakians don't trust Zaros (which they shouldn't), also it doesnt make sense, when he could u know empower Akthanakos who was in a bigger need to recover and was closer to dying, and is his follower which wouldn't have caused any kind of conflict, and even if your argument was correct, why not Bilrach then who was in skeletal form to save power and compared to other mahjarrat might have needed the energy more considering the fact he was trying to save as much power as he could, or at least looked like he needed it more as Akthanakos at first glance thought bil was losing power fast as well.

On a side note it made no sense or at least is surprising that the the option of portal magic was never mentioned, just saying.

01-Dec-2016 06:33:56

Kemtros
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Kemtros

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Padomenes said :
If this happened wouldn't it basically test Zamorak's "strength in chaos" virtue to the limits? And if he can really overcome it infact through + knowing that? With a dramatic adrenaline pumped rush to get it done no matter what before the time is up?

Exactly! Even if Zaros intends to have Zamorak fail no matter what, Zamorak would push himself to find a way around it.

Hguoh said :
A couple exact quotes coming up:

Zamorak: ... You know what happens if you break this vow, Zaros. Viniculum Juris is not forgiving.
Zaros: Yes...I will be undone.
Zamorak: Then it is no longer a matter of trust. Keep your word, or cease to exist.

Zamorak: He is bound to his word by Viniculum Juris, Khazard. Either he keeps his promise or he will be destroyed, both outcomes are victories.

Zamorak's wording certainly appears to favor Kemtros's understanding of the matter.

Thank you.

01-Dec-2016 16:22:33

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Zack3 said :
Just want to point something out, u do realize that despite wahi not interacting with Zaros he does interact with Azzanadra, and that wahi has being investigating the other mahjarrat for a long time, and if I'm not mistaken he even pretended to be zamorakian to survive previous rituals, and that he could have shared the knowledge he gathered to Azzanadra who could have told the intel to Zaros.

And that all depends on Azzanadra and Wahisietal discussing this somewhere between the relatively short period of time between Azzanadra being freed, Zaros's return, and CoM as well as Zaros putting sufficient faith in this unconfirmed suspicion to plan around it. But sure, fair enough.

Zack3 said :
Also by trying to empower a Zamorakian who are enemies of Zaros, it obviously would have ended in conflict no matter what as it would have seemed as an attack at first look by the zamorakians as it happened, since Zamorakians don't trust Zaros (which they shouldn't), also it doesnt make sense, when he could u know empower Akthanakos who was in a bigger need to recover and was closer to dying, and is his follower which wouldn't have caused any kind of conflict, and even if your argument was correct, why not Bilrach then who was in skeletal form to save power and compared to other mahjarrat might have needed the energy more considering the fact he was trying to save as much power as he could, or at least looked like he needed it more as Akthanakos at first glance thought bil was losing power fast as well.

And aiding a Zarosian would have proven what exactly? Helping the people on your side doesn't exactly fill the people against you with the greatest confidence about your intentions.

As I also mentioned, Khazard happens to not only be a Zamorakian Mahjarrat, but also the furthest from Zamorak at the time (more likely for the demo to not get interrupted).

02-Dec-2016 00:55:19

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