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Zack3

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NotFishing said :
Zaros promised to help the Dragon Riders and Mahjarrat. He didn't know if he could. And when he failed, he kept the lie despite the fact that both races were likely to turn on him when they found out he was lying. He is not above making minor gambles.
Did he? I do remember him saying mahjarrat were just glorified mercenaries, did he truly was planing to help those races? perhaps the empty lord truly was the master of empty promises.

Zaros:
And I expected more of you than deceit and mutiny. You are - were - my most trusted general.
Zamorak:
And we entrusted you with the survival and prosperity of our race, but what have you brought us except weakness and decay? You promised you would free us from the need to sacrifice! Free us from extinction!
Zaros:
Semantics! I simply told you what you needed to hear. You are nothing but glorified mercenaries, fighting for whoever is top of the food chain.

NotFishing said :
And I'll say it again: that is a good reason. It's a get-out-of-all jail free card should Zamorak ever have him cornered with the upper-hand. It gives him more sway over what happens in Sliske's game. It forces an entire faction to step back with their attempts to thwart him.
Zamorak wont attempt to attack Zaros now he is under Zaros leash, so there is no reason to use the command to escape zammy's threat when he wont be a threat as long as Zaros has control of the .....chess pieces, the most probable approach would be to take advantage of the deal and use it in his plans, he did mention wanting zammy to continue focusing on the stone, I would guess he wants Zammy to do another forinthry to wake the elders, to avoid receiving their rage himself, either way I can see Zaros using zammy as the fall guy.

28-Nov-2016 06:14:51

May

2008

The Mather1

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Zack3 said :

Hazeel said :
Do people seriously think he just happened to choose Khazard? Why not Akthankos, who needed it the most? Or Wahisietel who was starting to feel neglected? How about Azzanadra, who is his most valuable follower?
Exactly if Zaros truly wanted to prove a point he would have used his own followers, yet he didn't, and of all he chose Khazard....
Because the point he was trying to prove was that it was to benefit the Mahjarrat, not himself.

Saying he wanted to power them up and then proving it by powering up one of his own would mean nothing, as he could easily turn around and only power his own once he had everyone's cooperation. He suggested Khazard as a Zamorakian Mahjarrat to prove that they would all benefit, not just his own.

"Abscondita est in Astra."

28-Nov-2016 08:23:25

Zulkir

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If you take a look at the Mahjarrat during the final ritual, Khazard was closest to Zaros, so at the quickest glance it makes sense to pick him.

It would of worked, and if Zamorak had remembered his place and not launched at Zaros, he'd still have his wings, pride, and not have to of written Zaros a blank cheque.

Zamorak has nobody to blame but himself for the situation he finds himself in, I can't wait to see if he'll try and worm his way out of a contract. Seeing what happens when you don't fulfill your end of the deal would be a very interesting cutscene.

Zarosian Lorehound

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Inconsistent Completionist

28-Nov-2016 14:16:59

Bloodcount

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Just for reference sake:

• Zaros: It is a shame you cannot see the value of joining me. The things we could accomplish together... I see only one way we can mutually benefit from this predicament. I suggest we invokve Viniculum Juris, an ancient demonic pact I am sure you are familiar with.

• Zamorak: Hmm, I am familiar with the demons' pacts and what they entail. You have truly lost your mind if you think I will allow my fate to be entwined with yours.

• Zaros: You have no choice. If you wish to leave this place, I need to know you will not interfere with me again.

• Zamorak: Argh, spit it out then. What terms would you have bind us?

• Zaros: Sliske has the Catalyst. He intends to give it to the victor of the last of his games and end these nonsensical God Wars. I know you are planning to obtain it. You will continue to do so, but within this game you will perform one actio at my request. You will know which request I intend for you to act upon, because I will refer to you as my Legatus Maximus when I address you.

• Zamorak: Bah! You have gone mad, Zaros. Millennia in the abyss has warped your mind.

• Zaros: Wait. In return, I vow to deliver upon my promise. We will conduct one final ritual. When it is complete every one of you will have increased in power and the drain on your energy will be gone.

• Enakhra: The pact will bind him to his word, Zamorak. He will have to free us!

• Zamorak: I cannot give him what he wants, Enakhra. There is no telling what he would do with the Stone!

• Bilrach: Hmm, Mah stirs...the clock is ticking faster. I see no other path to salvation, my lord.

28-Nov-2016 23:03:49 - Last edited on 28-Nov-2016 23:07:53 by Bloodcount

Bloodcount

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• Zamorak: ... You know what happens if you break this vow, Zaros. Viniculum Juris is not forgiving.

• Zaros: Yes...I will be undone.

• Zamorak: Then it is no longer a matter of trust. Keep your word, or cease to exist.

• Zaros: We are clear on the consequences. Do you accept my wording?

• Zamorak: With one last ritual you will end the need for any more, prevent any further energy drain and in turn empower us all. If you deliver on this promise, I must perform one action for you in Sliske's game.

• Zaros: And the request I intend for you to act upon will be denoted by...

• Zamorak: You will address me as your Legatus Maximus.

• Zaros: Then it is settled. Player can serve as our witness, he is sure to be present at Sliske's game. Let us begin.

• Zamorak & Zaros: Animus contrahendi. Viniculum Juris!

• Zaros: It is done. We are bound.

• Zamorak: Then hold up your end of the bargain, Zaros. Now.

SLIGHTLY LATER

• General Khazard: F-father, can we really trust this to work?

• Zamorak: He is bound to his word by Viniculum Juris, Khazard. Either he keeps his promise or he wil be destroyed, both outcomes are victories.

NEAR THE END

• Zaros: Zamorak, I have kept my word. When Sliske holds his end game, you will be my Legatus Maximus once more.

• Zamorak: Do not taunt me, Empty Lord. I owe you no fealty.

• Zaros: We shall see.

• Zamorak: Today, the victory is ours. Mahjarrat, we spoke to Seren as a downtrodden race, sulking and sorry for ourselves. We may have been pushed to the brink of extinction, we may be few, but today is the dawning of a new era. Look around you. This day you have all grown in power. Adversity has pushed every one of you to become greater than you could have ever imagined. And I have achieved godhood. The genes of our species hold such incredible potential, it is within all of you. We are too few to continue these petty feuds. It is time we put aside our differences. It is time we unite!

28-Nov-2016 23:04:41

Bloodcount

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LATER

• Zaros: Just remember, it was I who gave you this freedom. Under my guidance you have all shattered your limitations. It is…inspiring. But remember, Zamorak, I made good on my promise. For now you belong to me.

• Zamorak: Then it would seem we have both garnered respect this day, but you should also remember, I owe you a single action. Choose it wisely.

• Zaros: Believe me, I will. For now there are other matters that require my attention. I must pay homage to my mother. Meet me by her remains, player. I have something for you.

TALKING TO ZAMMY AT THE END

• Zamorak: It is a glorious day for the mahjarrat, Player, but I would be alone now. My form and my pride have both been torn, and I have entered into a pact that may have dire consequences.

28-Nov-2016 23:05:34

Raleirosen

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NotFishing said :
I only saw him hiding the fact that his power was being drained too. All other examples were flashbacks to a time when he was much more arrogant and power-mad. As Zack3 pointed out, lying about Mah's intentions was the most egregious example.
NotFishing said :
Zaros promised to help the Dragon Riders and Mahjarrat. He didn't know if he could. And when he failed, he kept the lie despite the fact that both races were likely to turn on him when they found out he was lying. He is not above making minor gambles. Irrelevant, whether it's a gamble has nothing to do with whether planning is involved.
NotFishing said :
You say Zaros is manipulative, and that is true. But what if he was pretending to have a specific goal in mind, when he actually didn't? What? You already pointed out that he was pretending to do the exact opposite: give the impression that the entire thing was spur-of-the-moment.
NotFishing said :
He could have killed Zamorak, but decided not to. But he still couldn't let Zamorak go without a slap on the wrist: he needed to ensure that he would no longer be a threat, and that there was some use he could get out of him. Do you really think Zaros is incapable of split-second decision making? Again, irrelevant. I don't think he's incapable of making split-second decisions, I just think it's infinitely more likely that the entire quest went more or less the way he planned. He brought the Mahjarrat to Freneskae, he knew Zamorak would follow, he singled out Khazard, and he suggested the pact.

In any case, we won't get a chance to know until Endgame, if ever. Agree to disagree. Also, thanks to Darion for posting the dialogue. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

29-Nov-2016 02:22:17 - Last edited on 29-Nov-2016 02:26:18 by Raleirosen

Hazeel

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The Mather1 said :
Saying he wanted to power them up and then proving it by powering up one of his own would mean nothing, as he could easily turn around and only power his own once he had everyone's cooperation. He suggested Khazard as a Zamorakian Mahjarrat to prove that they would all benefit, not just his own.

In which case Kharshai, the neutrel party, is the most logical choice. When you see someone getting defensive over his bretheren, you don't target his only child unless you want him to lash out.

Zulkir said :
If you take a look at the Mahjarrat during the final ritual, Khazard was closest to Zaros, so at the quickest glance it makes sense to pick him.

It would of worked, and if Zamorak had remembered his place and not launched at Zaros, he'd still have his wings, pride, and not have to of written Zaros a blank cheque.

And that begs the question: What would Zaros have to gain from, ultimately, sharing power with the Mahjarrat and Zamorak? Again, even Seren wasn't invited. Likely because he didn't want to drain her too should Plan A fail.

This is a lot of power he's giving away. Over 90% of an Elder God's power that he could have horded all to himself had Zamorak not intervened. So why would he give it away? How does this benefit him in the long run, assuming no contract is made? Surely you can't truly believe he cares about the Mahjarrat aside from any use they may have to him. And if you think Zaros just wants to help people out of the goodness of his heart, then you are as blind as Azzanadra. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

29-Nov-2016 03:43:47 - Last edited on 29-Nov-2016 03:53:02 by Hazeel

Jun

2010

Half Centaur

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Hazeel said :

In which case Kharshai, the neutrel party, is the most logical choice. When you see someone getting defensive over his bretheren, you don't target his only child unless you want him to lash out.

Did he know Khazard was his son?

Powering up a Zamorakian would mean more, as its more of a show of trust. If he powered up the Zarosians or Kharshai, they may just assume he only intends to power them up.

Or, you can assume he was just trying to get Zamorak's goat, and it worked way better than he intended. He might have been able to predict goading Zamorak into attacking him so he has an excuse to kill him (he's getting in the way of restoring his race)- but didn't see him going martyr by saying he would power the Mahjarrat with his dying breath... which once again puts the public opinion ball back in Zamorak's court.

Also, as for why Zaros would give them the rest of the energy- he did need them for the ritual, its quite possible he wouldn't be able to keep the energy away from them. Other than that, the jump from tier 2 to tier 1 is probably much bigger than any power gap the Mahjarrat are facing. I'd also wager that Zaros figured if he could get all the others on his side, which he kinda managed to do, it'd be more useful in the short term, dealing with Sliske, than elder godhood. "We call it being a hero"

"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

29-Nov-2016 04:40:49

Prime Axiom

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So you're saying Zaros targeted Khazard because he wanted Zamorak to lash out at him?
There's no evidence of this. This is pure conjecture.

Occam's razor: Take the simplest explanation.
Zaros wanted to convince Zamorak that he was intending to power-up the Mahjarrat, and not drain their powers.
To prove so, he offered to empower Khazard. Zamorak, not trusting Zaros, lashed out.

Singling out Khazard would be highly improbable. Khazard was born towards the end of the godwars, during the 3rd age. Zaros was removed at the end of the 2nd age. None of the Zarosian Mahjarrat knew of Khazard's identity, and it seems like this was a secret to even the Zamorakian Mahjarrat. Khazard himself didn't even know.

29-Nov-2016 07:31:49 - Last edited on 29-Nov-2016 07:48:01 by Prime Axiom

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SPOILERS - ZAROS' PLAN

Zack3

The Mather1

Zulkir

Bloodcount

Bloodcount

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Raleirosen

Hazeel

Half Centaur

Prime Axiom