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Autumn Elite

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Then we proceed to the laboratories where we meet Sarius. I am unconvinced about the need of this part. On one hand it is nice to see a character with more complex views that the others - a human who works for a vampyre. But it also feels like a needless part, Efaritay basically told us what to do and Sarius being there only really serves as a call pack.

The book reveals a cure of vampyrism can be found with the blood of a hybrid e.g. Safalaan. There are a few issues with this. Firstly we find the solution to the whole series by searching an area we’ve already been to. This just comes off way too convinient and easy. Secondly the answer is Safalaan who completely by mistake has done the perfect thing to solve the series. It just makes Safalaan less of a character than he ever was. Safalaan has made a ton of mistakes over the series but is never called out on them and now he solves the series by making yet another mistake. It feels like the writers wanted to do this wyrd storyline then forced the rest of the plot details around the story e.g. Ivan, the solution of vampyrism.

Next is a sequence where we infiltrate the Dayealt refinery, free some slaves, do another blood puzzle and then get poisoned by Safalaan. Since there is probably no better time, I would like to compliment the graphical team here. Unlike Lord of Vampyrium they did not have a large area to really showcase their skills (outside Paterdomus) but the area here was great. Also the music was good, not as good as Lord of Vampyrium and slightly unmemorable, but a nice addition.

17-May-2016 14:41:09

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Then there is a hallucinating sequence. Honestly this just feels lazy. Can we stop with sequences like this and the soul collecting in Nomads Elegy? They add little to nothing and just comes off poorly. Here is how I imagine this went. “We need to reference back to previous quests, how should we do it?” “Erm, I’ve got nothing - lets just do a dream sequence”. Its just lazy and unimaginative. The only thing the sequence does give is confirming the Stone of Jas was the Rock Drakan used and that could have been explained in a line of dialogue in a dozen other places taking less resources. The hallucinating sequence is not just bad, its inefficient and should have been scrapped to spend more resources on other areas.

At the top of the tower, you confront Safalaan and Efaritay appears because of plot device powers. Anyway the boss fight begins. I’m unsure if you are allowed to bring gear or summoners but I was using the House Drakan clothes to mimic the last fight. Lots have been discussed about the boss fight. It was easier than Drakan and should have been given Drakan was the head honcho. However it would have been slightly more challenging that it was. Drakan was the ideal quest boss fight - everyone had the same equitment and food, it was more about mastering the strategy than using overloads and dydores then whining on the forum it needs a buff. Safalaan however did*’t really have many mechanics, sure he did a few things but it was mainly hit him until he dies. Yes he changes into Vanstrom and Drakan during the fight with one new trick buts that it. It would have been better to have a proper wyrd fight with mechanics that referencing other stuff.

17-May-2016 14:41:41

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Also since there is no better place to really discuss this apparently Vanstrom is meant to be King Ascertes. I just don't see the point of this. Vanstrom has been dead since Branches. What does post death changes to his character do? Whats the point? Especially as it isn't brought up by Safalaan and Efaritary directly. Does it make Drakan more cruel? Did*’t Lord of Vampyrium do that? Is it just to give Vanstrom a human alias for completion sake? I just don't see the point. I’m not against the development but since it isn't explained or explained well at least it just seems odd.

Finally we return to Paterdomus. Luckily Vanescula decided to wait and do nothing whilst we were away despite having werewolves and her vyrewatch being able to do so at any time. Yes its great she waited for the cure she did*** know we would discover. Very convenient. So she tries to send vyrewatch over and they become human. Then the werewolves rebel and that solves that problem. Safalaan and Efaritay show up and use the power of friendship to convince Vanescula to change her ways and have a truce. Then Vanescula tells a story to remind you she’s tough and you go back to Roald with everyone happy.

17-May-2016 14:44:30

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The ending did not work. As said before, it totally clashes with the tone of the series. A truce isn't horrible but should have been earned and with this quest does not provide that. It also brings to the forefront major issues with the series. Vampyres are so passive they change from invasion to changing their entire civilisation depending on Vanescula’s whims. The werewolves conveniently chose to rebel instead of fleeing over the Salve or just doing what Vanescula said because its convenient for the finale and werewolves have had no impact up until this point. Safalaan and Efaritary are made co rulers of Mortytania just because. We have no say in this at all and cannot object despite Safalaan*s long history of horrific mistakes and Vanescula being Vanescula. The humans of Mortytania, the people who are supposed to be the motivation for liberation, aren't mentioned or included. Now this could be a deliberate choice - seeing how war changed causes. But it isn't written to show this. Its just an unsatisfying ending that jarred terribly with the series.

So River of Blood. Tonally jarring and against the series, with some good moments like Ivandis but sub plots thrown in poorly just to conclude them or fill space in the quest and a totally unsatisfying ending. Ultimately it is better than Beneath Cursed Tides or Nomad’s Elegy but still unsatisfying and below the standard we should be getting. Probably a 5/10.

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17-May-2016 14:44:48 - Last edited on 17-May-2016 14:48:45 by Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

A small comment on post quest dialogue. It doesn’t make up for the rest of the quest but it was an appreciated addition. In particular how we could talk to Safalaan and say we don't forgive him. Its not perfect and should have had more options but it was good. Also nice was Veliaf being brought into aware ending. Vanescula, *faritay and Aeonis** also had dialogue which is fine but not as good. The death of the vampire at the top of Paterdomus seems unnecessary. It could have been left or as an activity in the future but just seems written off quickly.

17-May-2016 14:45:22

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

To sum up my main issues with River of Blood

• The tone and atmosphere was completely jarring to the series and what we were teased for the finale.
• Drezel’s death felt unnecessary, Ivan’s set up during the series was a let down and the lack of appearance from Veliaf was disappointing. Velaif at least should not been nearby doing nothing.
• The arcs for Safalaan and Efaritay fell short and were not good, or at least fleshed out, characters.
• It felt too easy and convenient. Some puzzles and combat being easy was fine but the whole quest did not feel like it earned being a grandmaster or finale quest.
• Subplots felt out of place, were not engaging and did not successfully link into the quest. Examples include arming the Varrock Guards and clearing Paterdomus.
• The failure to develop the vampyres, werewolves and human population felt their actions in the finale feeling weak and failing to resonate.
• Several characters felt like they were there just because it was the finale, not that they served a actual role.
• The whole hallucination sequence in Castle Drakan added very little and what it did add could have been added elsewhere with much less resources. It should have been scrapped
• Vanescula was far too easily ,and with no reason, stalled for a solution she didn't believe it.
• The marketing for this quest was misleading and gave the wrong impression of what this quest would be like and what the tone would be.
* The ending was completely off and felt unsatisfying. Vampyres agree easily, werewolf rebellion was not earned by the story, Safalaan and Efaritay assume their unearned positions, no humans in this war apparently about liberating humans. No opportunity to oppose this or even give our comments on this.

17-May-2016 14:45:46 - Last edited on 17-May-2016 14:47:49 by Autumn Elite

Rondstat

Posts: 2,770 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Did Beneath Cursed Tides. I liked it. A charming little self-contained quest with some fun elements. I enjoyed all the nostalgia aspects, and I thought a lot of the skewed takes on the original Tutorial Island were pretty clever. I especially loved the environmental work and the character design - it looks like the artists had a lot of fun with it, and the island is especially impressive in NXT. Great use of a lot of existing assets.

They didn't do as thorough a job on environmental consistency as, say, DoD (rainbarrel, anyone?), but that would probably be a bit much to expect. More disappointing were all the clickthrough near-puzzles. I don't understand why they go through the trouble of setting up a puzzle structure if it's going to be implemented with a bunch of left click options and auto-filled dialogue. It's okay to expect players to 'use' items on each other or remember names.

Meme-based humour is never a great idea in a game, especially when you remember that Runescape has existed for 15 years, and most of its earliest quests are still playable. This quest only came out a few months ago, and already a lot of the jokes feel dated. There's a reason most memes originate on messageboards - it's their natural environment.

Overall, however, these criticisms are minor. I thought the mechanics (especially the 'boss' fight) were simple but enjoyable, perfect for a project of this scope, and I grinned at some of the very deliberate tropey dialogue and plot contrivances (though I'd have liked if our character could have commented on their ridiculousness).

20-May-2016 02:15:13

Sep

2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rondstat said :
Did Beneath Cursed Tides. I liked it. A charming little self-contained quest with some fun elements. I enjoyed all the nostalgia aspects, and I thought a lot of the skewed takes on the original Tutorial Island were pretty clever. I especially loved the environmental work and the character design - it looks like the artists had a lot of fun with it, and the island is especially impressive in NXT. Great use of a lot of existing assets.

They didn't do as thorough a job on environmental consistency as, say, DoD (rainbarrel, anyone?), but that would probably be a bit much to expect. More disappointing were all the clickthrough near-puzzles. I don't understand why they go through the trouble of setting up a puzzle structure if it's going to be implemented with a bunch of left click options and auto-filled dialogue. It's okay to expect players to 'use' items on each other or remember names.

Meme-based humour is never a great idea in a game, especially when you remember that Runescape has existed for 15 years, and most of its earliest quests are still playable. This quest only came out a few months ago, and already a lot of the jokes feel dated. There's a reason most memes originate on messageboards - it's their natural environment.

Overall, however, these criticisms are minor. I thought the mechanics (especially the 'boss' fight) were simple but enjoyable, perfect for a project of this scope, and I grinned at some of the very deliberate tropey dialogue and plot contrivances (though I'd have liked if our character could have commented on their ridiculousness).
While I agree on some points, I must say that the character of Hector Vivian was an absolute joke. He was honestly a worse villain than Mother Mallum in SitW. Bad dialogue that isn't funny in a meta-way and he made no sense. If he can sink and curse an entire island, shouldn't the Temple Knights have sent assassins after him ages ago..? Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.

— Zanik

21-May-2016 09:21:07

Rondstat

Posts: 2,770 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I don't know, I thought the point was for him to be an absolute joke. Some Snidely Whiplash-level arch who conveniently lays out the exact method to foil his plans, his power perfectly balanced by the fact that it only exists to be undone. Perhaps I give him too much credit, but I originally interpreted it as a self-deprecating meta-commentary on Ollie's own spotty track record when it comes to writing characters, and villains in particular. The contrivance mirrors Sliske at the top of DAT in a way that feels deliberate. I can get on board for that sort of thing.

So, I'm really on a quest kick right now. Just did Nomad's Elegy. I liked it far more than I expected to. What impressed me most about this quest is that it doesn't lose sight of its place as sequel and epilogue to Nomad's Requiem. It is written with a lot of respect for the lore, and it elevates the same tableaus, themes, and sequences seen in its predecessor, but in a way that enriches Requiem's story in retrospect, and makes all those loose fragments tumble together into a complete picture.

The quest very much has its own identity and its own agenda, but it is designed to let us empathize with our villain, understand his motivations, and trace an uninterrupted line (thematically, at least) from our first encounter with Nomad, through all the events that have touched on his arc (like RotM, TWW, etc), to its culmination, while witnessing and understanding just how these events have shaped and changed that arc (more impressive for the fact that we essentially are only there for the beginning and end). That was a long sentence.

I think Raven is the most empathetic quest developer. More than anyone else, he truly cares about his characters, he wants to understand them, and he wants US to understand them. There are no such things as simple motivations - every character is the sum of countless incidents, relationships, stimuli, decisions.

23-May-2016 02:32:26

Rondstat

Posts: 2,770 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Now, this is not always a good thing. Sometimes he can run away with these themes, at the expense of, say, lore and mechanics (HoS), or it will risk veering into the realm of melodrama. However, when well done, he is able to create some of the most poignant moments in the game, and I think this quest, while occasionally heavy handed, is really elevated for its focus on character development. I don't think another developer could have done it the same way.

Speaking of which - this quest takes a VERY unexpected thematic approach, which certainly made the story feel fresher and more surprising. It does not exonerate Nomad, but it acknowledges how he was made, how he was failed, while ultimately concluding that his decisions, and culpability for them, are his own. As are Xenia's. As are the adventurer's. As are all of the dead, lost between their responsibility and their persecution.

It was a compelling choice to present such a non-utopian view of the afterlife, especially for these beloved, heroic characters. Their eternities are plagued by doubt and regret - no rest for the just. I was actually surprised by how dark the backstories became - Korasi's abusive father, Xenia's son lost to gang violence. These aren't the sort of fanciful origins we've encountered in the past, but more troubling circumstances because of how much closer they are to the real world. While I initially felt they might be a bit contrived, especially as they have no bearing on the plot, as the story went on and we delved deeper into Nomad's psyche, I understood their importance as a counterpoint to Nomad. Both heroes and villains are forged in a crucible of strife. The individual invents oneself every day. Whether foundational conflict - Korasi's abuse and Nomad's orphaning - or reactions to injustice and violence - Zanik to Bandos vs Nomad to Lucien. It is in the intersection of circumstance and decision that the individual is born.

23-May-2016 02:49:51

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