RuneScape Forum Archive | New Seren is not Seren

Hguoh

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Britisher said :
Hguoh said :
She was irrational for immediately assuming that the elves love didn't come from her curse. Assertions are not helpful. I have presented my reasoning to explain her ignorance, and I stand by said reasoning.

She knew about her curse and how it affected people. And while this relationship felt different than her one with Zaros, she immediately assumed that this was due to them loving her freely and not due to them being mortal (to be fair though, she didn't know they were mortal at the time).

So she knew about her curse, and yet chose to eliminate it as a possibility due to a conclusion she came to with absolutely no evidence to support it. That's being irrational. I'll give her a bit of leeway due to her not knowing that there was another factor that it different to the relationship she had with Zaros, but it's still irrational as she continued on that premise even once the difference was made clear.

26-Jul-2015 15:40:10 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2015 16:01:27 by Hguoh

Britisher

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Hguoh said :
She knew about her curse and how it affected people. And while this relationship felt different than her one with Zaros, she immediately assumed that this was due to them loving her freely and not due to them being mortal ( to be fair though, she didn't know they were mortal at the time ). Indeed. She had little understanding of her own nature, with next to no evidence to provide rational thought on the matter, hence, she had to make assumptions and from that develop her own beliefs. And no, she had a very limited understanding on the impact of her curse on mortal beings, and in her first thought she welcomed both possibilities yet chose - through ignorance - to believe that the elves loved her through their own free-will.
Hguoh said :
So she knew about her curse She did not have a comprehensive understanding of it's nature, making her ignorant to the situation at large.
Hguoh said :
chose to eliminate it as a possibility due to a conclusion she came to with absolutely no evidence to support it. Actually, no. Her memories demonstrate that Seren was open to both possibilities, favouring her ideal that the elves loved her through choice. As I have said before, she had little understanding on how the curse which Mah instilled in her affected mortals. She had no definite proof to suggest that her curse would impact on the lives of the elves at all: this made her ignorant to the situation. She did not understand the curse.

She mentions both possibilities on multiple occasions, so it's clear to see that she dismissed neither of the two, favouring the idea that the elves loved her of their own free will.

And let us also look at Seren's only other experience with mortal beings. The Mahjarrat. From her memories we understand that the Mahjarrat abandoned Seren, ignoring her demands to sacrifice themselves for Mah...

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 16:00:49

Britisher

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In her ignorance, she had reason to believe the elves loved her of their own freewill.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 16:01:24

Hguoh

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Britisher said :
Indeed. She had little understanding of her own nature, with next to no evidence to provide rational thought on the matter, hence, she had to make assumptions and from that develop her own beliefs. And no, she had a very limited understanding on the impact of her curse on mortal beings, and in her first thought she welcomed both possibilities yet chose - through ignorance - to believe that the elves loved her through their own free-will.

That still doesn't make it rational as she still couldn't eliminate her curse from being an option. If you cannot eliminate or at least cast significant doubt on either option, you must consider that they are both as possible. By choosing an option to believe when both were plausible, Seren made an irrational leap in logic.

Britisher said :
And let us also look at Seren's only other experience with mortal beings. The Mahjarrat. From her memories we understand that the Mahjarrat abandoned Seren, ignoring her demands to sacrifice themselves for Mah...

Umm, that's not what happened at all. Seren abandoned them, leaving once Mah fell into a deep sleep. The Mahjarrat kept performing their rituals as Seren instructed until Zaros taught them to only do it as is necessary for rejuvination on Gielinor.

As for the other tribes on Freneskae: The Chelon-Mah fully embraced the rituals, sacrificing their entire tribe; only the Mahserret abandoned the rituals.

26-Jul-2015 23:30:20 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2015 23:37:02 by Hguoh

Seren

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Britisher said :
In her ignorance, she had reason to believe the elves loved her of their own freewill.

Well, it was certainly pretty terrifying when I realized otherwise...

And pfft, I'm not insane! Definitely not

yesss tell them

Totally normal, totally sane, yep! Not fragmented at all.

27-Jul-2015 10:03:05

Britisher

Posts: 1,276 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
That still doesn't make it rational as she still couldn't eliminate her curse from being an option. If you cannot eliminate or at least cast significant doubt on either option, you must consider that they are both as possible. By choosing an option to believe when both were plausible, Seren made an irrational leap in logic. And she did not eliminate it, as demonstrated by her constant referencing towards both options. Ignorance... She chose to believe one way, but did not dismiss the other. And as she was ignorant to the situation at large she could not act in an informed, reasonable way. Even now, for all we know, the elves love for Seren was of their own accord, reinforced - of course - by her power to instil love in mortals..

1) "I can only surmise that what Mah created artificially has been manifested naturally with these beings. I see now that what Mah did to us was wrong, but this feels so right! Could it be as simple as the right to choose?"
2) "I still sometimes ponder whether they love me of their own volition or they are enamoured by my divine status. I choose to believe the former."
3) "Though I believe they love me by choice, the part of me that instils a feeling of love in others became a great hook in their souls."
4) [Fragment] "It was too late that I realised that all must love me, such was Mah's decree."

Every time she mentions the nature of the elves love towards her she opens her dialogue towards both possibilities.

And, regardless, this has little to do with the general discussion as to whether Seren is or is not insane. Even if we assume that she was deciding to believe in something irrationally without regard towards other areas/reason (which is simply not true) this does not qualify as insanity. This was a belief that Seren did not act upon, therefore by definition it is not insanity.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

27-Jul-2015 10:23:25 - Last edited on 27-Jul-2015 10:26:28 by Britisher

Britisher

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Seren said :
Britisher said :
In her ignorance, she had reason to believe the elves loved her of their own freewill.

Well, it was certainly pretty terrifying when I realized otherwise...

And pfft, I'm not insane! Definitely not

yesss tell them

Totally normal, totally sane, yep! Not fragmented at all. Ha! I wish I had that name...

This is about Seren's sanity prior to shattering.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

27-Jul-2015 10:24:07

Britisher

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The word believe can either mean accepting something as the truth without any proof or holding an opinion over something ... From her dialogue it is clearly the latter, demonstrated by her constant referencing of both possibilities.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

27-Jul-2015 10:29:24

Aug

2013

Amascut

Posts: 21,623 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Britisher said :
Seren said :
Britisher said :
In her ignorance, she had reason to believe the elves loved her of their own freewill.

Well, it was certainly pretty terrifying when I realized otherwise...

And pfft, I'm not insane! Definitely not

yesss tell them

Totally normal, totally sane, yep! Not fragmented at all. Ha! I wish I had that name...

This is about Seren's sanity prior to shattering.

Got very lucky to pick it up when it was open

@Fannygirdle on Twitter | Co-Owner of The Scrying Pool, a future updates and lore clan

28-Jul-2015 05:40:00

Britisher

Posts: 1,276 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Called it.

Jagex intend to undermine the entire Seren faction by making the personality of Seren based on the actions of the player. It's no longer the Seren faction.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

31-Jul-2015 20:49:29

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