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Britisher

Britisher

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Last Prophet said :
Britisher said :
Last Prophet said :
Of all the gods, I feel that Seren is the most faithful to Jagex's original vision for her. ... No!!!

The lore surrounding Seren has changed more so than any other deity in RuneScape.
Here are just a few examples:

1) FunOrb's Armies of Gielinor (2009) - Seren is included in the God Wars
2) God Emissaries (2013) - Seren is the goddess of peace and harmony: did not partake in the God Wars
3) Plague's End & Prifddinas (2014) - Seren's character is altered, showing a side less interested in peace, and more in breaking a curse upon the elves brought on by herself - "dark" side is developed.

Her involvement in the God Wars has little bearing on her personality.

I'd like to think of the Dark Lord as an extension of Seren rather than a re-write of her character. She's still, to this day, protective to the last of her elves.

I really don't know what you think has changed about her. From the examples given we go from...
1. Involved in war
2. Pacifist who refuses to be involved in the god wars
3. Seren gets bashed to appease the masses, because by Jagex logic ALL FACTIONS MUST BE BASHED, unless they are Zarosian or Armadyllean.
"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

25-Jul-2015 11:18:31

Britisher

Britisher

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Zulkir said :
I sympathise with your issues, but Seren can't just sit and do nothing in the 6th age.

The elder gods are waking up, the stone is up for grabs, the lessers and back yet again ruining Gielinor.

Every god is doing something, Zaros is devising his master plan behind the scenes, Saradomin is trying to resurrect a race, Zamorak is trying to cheat, Armadyl is... well... Alright most of the gods are doing something.

Seren can't stand there like a lemon. She has to be involved.

But I don't think she'll be changing personality wise for those who like yourself and many others will be restoring her properly, this entire hint at insanity is likely towards the people who for some reason hate her and will sabotage her.

I see her return and changes to her character as nothing but positives.

Don't abandon the faction and certainly not the game, at least wait and play through the quest and post quest before deciding that. Overall I agree, but my central concern is that Seren will be changed beyond recognition... "Bashed" to put it lightly.

Well I suppose I shall need to wait...
"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

25-Jul-2015 11:21:28

An Aviansie
Oct Member 2004

An Aviansie

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I don't think it's entirely fair to say Zaros and Armadyl haven't gotten bashing, although I can admit they have received less negative lore than some other factions in question (Saradomin comes immediately to mind in this regard.)

But yeah, I can sympathize. As Seren is a very close second favorite for me, I would hate to see her personality be completely changed, although I very highly doubt that would happen for people like us who will be helping Seren.
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25-Jul-2015 12:10:13

Britisher

Britisher

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Enquidou said :
Why would she be bashed, though? I believe Jagex's reasoning is along the lines of "evening out" the factions morality... Yet they have failed to apply this to the Zarosian and Armadyl factions, so there is a bias/imbalance in terms of perceived lore morality.
"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

25-Jul-2015 12:38:03

Svigris

Svigris

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Britisher said :
Enquidou said :
Why would she be bashed, though? I believe Jagex's reasoning is along the lines of "evening out" the factions morality... Yet they have failed to apply this to the Zarosian and Armadyl factions, so there is a bias/imbalance in terms of perceived lore morality.

Armadyl has had a general lack of content since WE2, however he does have flaws in his brashness and arrogance. You just need to look at everything he has done to see them.

On the other hand Zaros is actually well shown, a tad too well shown. Being the god of manipulation, he fooled many of those too daft too see through his deceptions and lies. I was hoping Zamorak would be able to shake up the lore community in DAT, but it was not ment to be.

Seren is portrayed very well, for what we've seen of her. She's very passionated about those who follow her and is willing to lay down her life to protect them. Mainly because she wants them to die when she tells them to not at any other time, but regardless she does care about them.
I think you've constructed a false idol for Seren, she isn't a benevolent goddess. I think you need to take a step back and try to look at things as a whole.

25-Jul-2015 14:22:46

Britisher

Britisher

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Svigris said :
Seren is portrayed very well, for what we've seen of her. She's very passionated about those who follow her and is willing to lay down her life to protect them. Mainly because she wants them to die when she tells them to not at any other time, but regardless she does care about them.
I think you've constructed a false idol for Seren, she isn't a benevolent goddess. I think you need to take a step back and try to look at things as a whole. Benevolence is quite a subjective term, and so in that regard I disagree with your view.

Seren has been portrayed as selfish, ignorant and irrational in her Prifddinas memories. The same is no-where-near true for Armadyl whose portrayal in lore has been almost entirely positive: he is seen as noble, innocent albeit slightly naive and hypocritical. In this sense Armadyl does not fulfil the same role of a "rounded character" which Jagex so desperately and deliberately seek to manufacture.

As for Zaros, well, the Zaros faction is perhaps the only which needs to be "evened out". Yes he does have various negative qualities, I think he is a rounded character in fairness - however, he is portrayed to be honest, logical and the only god capable of dealing with the Great Revision with said negative qualities remaining veiled to the masses.

Let's compare for example Zaros' dialogue in Fate of the Gods with that of Seren's in Prifddinas.
Both effectively say the same things about most of the other factions, such as Armadyl, Saradomin and Zamorak. Where Zaros carefully disguises his true beliefs as a means of appealing to the masses, Seren's emotions are laid bare. This naturally makes Zaros the more appealing choice, especially when he is carefully established to be speaking the absolute truth as part of the quest...

The term "Mary Sue" springs to mind. And I mean no offence to any Zarosians (I myself respect Zaros, perhaps as my second deity).
"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

25-Jul-2015 15:21:20 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2015 15:23:32 by Britisher

Amascut
Aug Member 2013

Amascut

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Last Prophet said :
Of all the gods, I feel that Seren is the most faithful to Jagex's original vision for her.

Ya know, I really agree with this as well. The more we learn about her, the more she continues to exemplify the role she's always been known as - just with deeper and a bit more sinister meanings behind it. Her ties to the Elder Gods and Zaros just made her even more relevant, and her story on Freneskae is beautifully tragic, and fits her perfectly to me.

She's clearly not quite right in the head, but is trying desperately to find somewhere she can belong and be loved without FORCING that love. Giving her more personality traits just helps flesh her out as a character rather than move her away from what Seren has always been. If anything, she's the best realized God so far, and if the upcoming Seren quest continues this way, I'll be very happy, as a Serenist myself.

And with the issues brought up:

FunOrb's Armies of Gielinor

AoG is semi-to-non canon at best.

God Emissaries

Seren continues to be shown as she always has been, the Goddess of nature, peace, and the elves.

Fate of the Gods, Plague's End & Prifddinas

Seren got her best expansions from these three pieces of content, showing her dedication to both the world she found and the elves she swore she'd protect. We got backstory on her creation, her role in the world, and her relationships with the Anima and other Gods like Zaros and Guthix. Even moreso, after her selfless shattering to protect the Elves, we saw what could happen if fragments of her were corrupted, like Haluned becoming the Dark Lord. It created a lot of room for thought about how Seren could be, if she was restored, which is fantastic. It creates meaning and consequence for her actions, and growth to boot. @Fannygirdle on Twitter | Co-Owner of The Scrying Pool, a future updates and lore clan

25-Jul-2015 16:34:02

Rondstat

Rondstat

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I always feel a bit dismayed when I see folks who are so much more invested in the arbitrary 'rank' of their faction, whether in popularity, virtue, etc, than in the quality of the storyline. Before the 6th Age, Seren was a vaguely defined goddess of peace and the Anima Mundi. She wasn't a character, but a general concept - which was fine for content back then.

In expanding her into a character, though, I think she's been very well-handled, second only to Saradomin, and far better than Zaros or Zamorak. Hers is one of the most tragic stories in Runescape. Her aeons-long lifetime is spent in vain search for belonging, for a community and ties that are true and nurturing, and not manipulative, psychologically degenerative, or obligatory as were the relationships that spawned her. Yet she does not realize, or chooses to ignore, her own inadvertent complicity in the abusiveness of these relationships, and continues to create a state of passive violence against those she loves.

Her relationship with Guthix, in particular, is heart rending. There is a Portugues term, saudade, that signifies a nostalgia for that which can never be again, and the sadness and loss that go with this. That is the scene, as Seren and Guthix meet at the close of the 3rd Age, those who would have, should have loved one another, now meeting as enemies because of who they are, Seren forced to reveal herself as no better than the warmongers Guthix has expelled, Guthix forced to grapple with the inherent fault in his scheme.

Guthix and the Elves are the loves of Seren's life, and she has let them down, hurt them, and the only way for her to fully make amends, the only way to preserve hers and their love, is to sacrifice herself fully - her destruction is her ultimate penance, the final expression of her absolute devotion.

And now we can just say, 'nope, undo' and bring her back. Which will cheapen the significance/impact of her story and sacrifice, but whatevs, player power!

25-Jul-2015 17:22:27

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