RuneScape Forum Archive | New Seren is not Seren

Britisher

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Lord Remus said :
Snip This is very fair, although I am not satisfied with joining the Godless.

Yes, the Godless are a blob of individuals with little else in common - but they stand for an ideal, just like every other faction.

And no, they are not in-fitting with my own beliefs. Zaros or Armadyl looks to be the most satisfactory alternative for me, and I would take no joy in joining a faction which barely represents me...

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 11:32:40 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2015 11:34:02 by Britisher

Aug

2023

CakeRider

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Of course Jagex is going to change Seren. You know how fiction is these days - you can't be a strong independent woman who needs no man unless you're wielding a sword and being a badass.

On a more serious note, I just cannot see Seren truly becoming a part of the Dog Wars, considering she is locked behind so much high level content, perhaps even moreso than Zaros. I don't know if it'd actually be worth switching factions either, after having done all this content in the name of your ~~waifu~~ goddess. But if you must change faction, become a wandering mercenary: become a Bandosian, the mighty PVM'er/PVP'er who looks down on everyone else, just as the game intends you to be!

26-Jul-2015 12:50:01

Hguoh

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Britisher said :
Secondly, from her memories we know that upon shutting herself off from her elves she would not act upon her desire to take revenge upon Zamorak. From this point until her shattering we know that Seren remained in the elf lands, continuing to shut herself off from the elves. Also, we know that Guthix allowed Seren to remain on Gielinor - she was the last deity to be removed from the land (apart from April-Fools-Joke-gone-wrong, Brassica Prime): a right that we know from V he only gave to those who did not partake in the God Wars. In the Acceptance memory Seren also states "The petty squabbling of the young gods has awoken him... I am glad he has returned and put a stop to them." The shard's dialogue towards Zamorak could simply be raw emotion, or - as it's out of context - it could refer to a different "promise", perhaps she "rose against him" without armed conflict. So I must dismiss this point entirely.

Well there are revenant dark beasts, which would only have happened had dark beasts been in Forinthry during or been killed 'shortly' before it's destruction (shortly being an extremely relative term).

And we do know that the beasts were attracted by the very same death altar energy Seren exposed herself to and experimented with.

Not saying that Seren directly fought in the God Wars or had her elves fight in it (she couldn't have due to the Song of Creation), but she could have been secretly sending Dark Beasts after Zamorak and his forces.

26-Jul-2015 14:39:41

Hguoh

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Britisher said :
The shard of Seren is quite contrary to her memories, so I dismiss this point. Firstly, the shard mentions a desire to go to Gielinor as a means of keeping the Elder Gods asleep indefinitely, this contradicts her memories wherein her desire to go to Gielinor was as a means of curing the elves of their curse. Furthermore it contradicts the fact that in the Dimensions of Disaster universe Seren and the elves did not come to Gielinor as the player did not appear to Haluned, offering hope for Seren that the curse of the elves could be broken.

This again? Dude, she didn't come to Gielinor. The only difference between the DoD universe and our own is that the player character didn't exist. She would have still felt the elder gods on Gielinor, and Guthix would have still been here to help keep them asleep. Despite all that, she didn't come to Gielinor.

There is no contradiction. She may have partly come to help keep the elders asleep, but that evidently was not a strong enough reason by itself to come. She needed the hope of fixing what she had done to elves.

I like Seren. I like that she strives to fix her problems. I like that she tries to make things better even if she fails at doing so. But come on, acknowledge her faults. She was irrational for immediately assuming that the elves love didn't come from her curse. She is extremely concerned with keeping the elves love even if it means hurting them and keeping them ignorant.

Those are some pretty big faults, but it all goes back to this being her very first 'real' relationship with anything or anybody. She has no idea how to have a healthy relationship and she's never had anybody teach her how. And despite all that, she still recognizes and regrets when she's done something wrong in her relationship with the elves.

I mean, her last action was to try to kill herself so that she could right the biggest wrong she'd ever done. She's not bad.

26-Jul-2015 14:39:42 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2015 14:57:52 by Hguoh

Britisher

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Hguoh said :
Well there are revenant dark beasts, which would only have happened had dark beasts been in Forinthry during or been killed 'shortly' before it's destruction (shortly being an extremely relative term).

And we do know that the beasts were attracted by the very same death altar energy Seren exposed herself to and experimented with.

Not saying that Seren directly fought in the God Wars or had her elves fight in it (she couldn't have due to the Song of Creation), but she could have been secretly sending Dark Beasts after Zamorak and his forces. That is not definitive... The Dark Beasts are clearly associated with the Dark Lord, perhaps a consequence of Seren's "experiments" with the death energies in the Underground Pass. Given that they have been influenced by the effects of the Death Altar I am not entirely confident that Seren had command over them (even if she did create them).

With this in mind, the only means by which Seren could do so would be by returning to the Death Altar to create/control the Dark Beasts to rise against Zamorak between shutting herself in the Tower of Voices and with the return of Guthix. I'm certainly not going to dismiss this, and it is a very interesting point, however I see little room for it.

The lore surrounding Dark Beasts isn't ideal however. Some also inhabit the dungeon beneath Baxtorian Falls, yet this area was governed by the elves after Seren shattered herself. Perhaps members of the Iowerth were more attracted to said beasts and utilised them to fight for Seren by their own accord?

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 15:06:58 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2015 15:10:44 by Britisher

Hguoh

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Britisher said :
That is not definitive... The Dark Beasts are clearly associated with the Dark Lord, perhaps a consequence of Seren's "experiments" with the death energies in the Underground Pass. Given that they have been influenced by the effects of the Death Altar I am not entirely confident that Seren had command over them (even if she did create them).

With this in mind, the only means by which Seren could do so would be by returning to the Death Altar to create/control the Dark Beasts to rise against Zamorak between shutting herself in the Tower of Voices and with the return of Guthix. I'm certainly not going to dismiss this, and it is a very interesting point, however I see little room for it.

The lore surrounding Dark Beasts isn't ideal however. Some also inhabit the dungeon beneath Baxtorian Falls, yet this area was governed by the elves after Seren shattered herself. Perhaps members of the Iowerth were more attracted to said beasts and utilised them to fight for Seren by their own accord?

The ones under Baxtorian Falls were brought there forcefully by Kuradel just like the rest of monsters in her dungeon.

I like your idea about the dark elves using the beasts on their own, but it doesn't make much sense for them to have gotten involved on their own accord since they were protected by Seren's barrier around elven lands (that and they would have been in Forinthry, and even the Iowerth couldn't go that long without being near Seren at that point).

26-Jul-2015 15:16:46 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2015 15:17:05 by Hguoh

Britisher

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Hguoh said :
This again? Dude, she didn't come to Gielinor. The only difference between the DoD universe and our own is that the player character didn't exist. That is exactly what I said...?

Hguoh said :
There is no contradiction. She may have partly come to help keep the elders asleep, but that evidently was not a strong enough reason by itself to come. She needed the hope of fixing what she had done to elves. Shall I refresh your mind?

"I knew that were it possible, then it would be through him. So I decided, there and then , that I would bring the elves to Gielinor."

The shard's lines are out of context, so we cannot definitively desipher if it is even the truth, and if we do assume that it is we still do not know 1) how she "rose against him" 2) what the promise was. It is far fetched, questionable and vaguely related to the discussion.

Hguoh said :
She was irrational for immediately assuming that the elves love didn't come from her curse. Assertions are not helpful. I have presented my reasoning to explain her ignorance, and I stand by said reasoning.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 15:20:22

Britisher

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Hguoh said :
I like your idea about the dark elves using the beasts on their own, but

1) it doesn't make much sense for them to have gotten involved on their own accord since they were protected by Seren's barrier around elven lands

2) (that and they would have been in Forinthry, and even the Iowerth couldn't go that long without being near Seren at that point).

Although this is just an idea as opposed to fact I'm willing to try to atleast defend it

1) It is apparent that the barrier/Seren allowed those who wished to fight in the god wars to leave Tirannwn.
Book of Seren - "...We mourned those who had left to fight, but eventually we lost track of time and the world outside, much as we had back on our home plane..." (despite being listed under the 'Second Age' the book states that the elves lost track of time, and chronically matching this text to Seren's memories would suggest it to be around the start of the God Wars - "I shall attune the anima of Tirranwn to erect a barrier around us, which should keep us isolated from the others of this world. All elves must retreat into the forests. If Zaros can be forgotten, then so can we. Hopefully, it will buy the time I require. We shall leave the rest of the world to their wars. I have been wrong about so much. I hope that I am not wrong about this.&quot

2) Well we know that even then Seren was capable of breaking off shards of her own being, so perhaps she gave those who left to fight such shards to allow them to survive. Alternatively, the Iorwerth's link to Seren was said to be far weaker than the other clans, growing a dependency on the "darker" elements of her persona. With her experiments perhaps part of Seren was bound onto the Dark Beasts? Thus allowing the Iorwerth to survive beyond Tirannwn without the need to be in the presence of Seren.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 15:28:49

Britisher

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Also, the testing on the Iorwerth took place prior to the Third Age, perhaps some lived elsewhere in Gielinor, either with no dependency on Seren or with the Dark Beasts, in the Second Age?

I also forgot to mention, Seren clustered herself in the Tower of Voices at the very start of the God Wars with the intention of detaching herself from the elves... So I think it unlikely that she rose against Zamorak in a military sense, unless doing so through the clan elders.

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 15:31:43

Britisher

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Also, the testing on the Iorwerth took place prior to the Third Age, perhaps some lived elsewhere in Gielinor, either with no dependency on Seren or with the Dark Beasts, in the Second Age?

I also forgot to mention, Seren clustered herself in the Tower of Voices at the very start of the God Wars with the intention of detaching herself from the elves... So I think it unlikely that she rose against Zamorak in a military sense, unless doing so through the clan elders.

Double post

"Guthix was right, Gielinor is better off without its gods. I will not leave you, not again, but I will not lead you." —
Seren

26-Jul-2015 15:31:43 - Last edited on 26-Jul-2015 15:32:10 by Britisher

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New Seren is not Seren