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Guthix, Sliske, & Shadow Anima

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AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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An overarching question in my mind is: With what model can we understand what shadow anima is?

I watched Thor: Darkworld the other night (I don't really recommend it) – it employs a concept of shadow obscurely linked to physics: an unclear mix of dark matter or anti-matter. The obscurity is problematic, since the two cause very different effects: Dark matter doesn’t interact or hardly interacts with ordinary matter; anti-matter annihilates ordinary matter. Big difference.

There’s some resonance in the lore so far between shadow anima and anti-matter, though I think too strong an analogy with anti-matter will make for boring storytelling. It wouldn’t draw in the poetic meaning of shadow, the character of Sliske, etc.

Also last week, I was revisiting Husserl’s Ideas I (published in 1913, re-translated by Dahlstrom in 2014) and came across in §114 a discussion of what can be called “shadow consciousness.” Husserl doesn’t give a lot of detail there, but we can think of “shadow consciousness” as a way of perceiving, remembering, thinking, etc. that has abandoned an interest in or consideration of any reality to, or logical or lawful connectedness in or among, the objects of our consciousness. Kind of like a dream-consciousness, where anything can happen and little to nothing is stable. Or like a form of consciousness experienced in deep depression: when one’s interest in reality has slipped away. Interestingly, Husserl notes that the objects of “shadow consciousness” are not the same objects as ordinary consciousness but counter-objects, shadow-objects. These aren’t precise descriptions of Husserl’s account of “shadow consciousness,” but rough analogies – more precision would require some more posts.

10-May-2021 15:29:07

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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I bring this up because I think the latter is a more promising model for the lore. When I worked on planar theory, I proposed thinking of the realms of light, shadow, abyss, and void as modalities:
Realms of light are realms of realities;
shadow realm(s) , realm(s) of real possibilities, i.e. possibilities somehow related to realities, like shadows are related to what casts them;
the abyss , a realm of pure possibilities, unrelated to realities and many of the laws that govern realities; and
the void , a realm of pure abstractions (such that straddling the dimensions as the Spirit Beast sought to do is analogous to EDIT: passing a Turing Test rendering two regions formally isometric). [I will continue to work on this - how spaces merge has implications for how split timelines might merge.]
This isn’t a bad context for developing the concept of concept of shadow anima.

Ideally, the development of the concept of shadow anima will draw on concepts from both physics and phenomenology, maybe even in a way that avoids contradicting either field (so that the two are straddled!) – for anyone interested in how powerful so high a bar for storytelling can be, I highly recommend Owen Barfield’s Poetic Diction , especially its seventh chapter.

10-May-2021 15:29:30 - Last edited on 12-May-2021 15:08:54 by AttilaSquare

A Mighty

A Mighty

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Interesting as always, Attila!

And perfect timing too-- you make those posts on the day I come back and resubscribe for the summer haha
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

11-May-2021 05:05:34

A Mighty

A Mighty

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So the latest Grandmaster Quest, Extinction, was released a few weeks ago, and I have now completed it. This quest answers a lot of questions about this theory, and dseems to confirm most of it! Note that the rest of this post will contain SPOILERS FOR EXTINCTION! You have been warned!

So, everything falls into place with the discussion we have with Seren at the very end of the quest:

Shadow Voice:
Don't worry. We're still here.
Seren:
Who is that? Those...voices? I recognise them...
Light Voice:
Our gift remains. All that extra power we picked up in Erebus is gone, though.
Shadow Voice:
A shame. Imagine what we could do with that power....
Seren:
How curious. Do you know what they are?
Player:
No. Do you?
Seren:
Whatever Guthix did to you, those are the faces of it, it seems.
Player:
So it's not...Sliske?
Seren:
No. Not him. They are something else. Something more.


This fits with pretty much everything I have said in my theory. When Sliske killed Guthix in TWW, he transferred some of his magic to Sliske. These are the light and shadow masks that we first encountered in MPD. Light and shadow are perfectly balanced as is the way of Guthix, although some of Sliske is now certainly present in them, as evidenced by the very end of Endgame where the masks comfort Relomia.

My theory is that Guthix knew of Sliske's power with shadows, sought him out, and Sliske agreed willingly to play along, betraying Jas and following Guthix. When he died in Endgame, he fulfilled Guthix's wish/plan and transferred the essence to us. These essences helped our shadow anima grow in power, as it was revealed in a previous quest that it has increased in power. Then, extinction comes along, and everything Guthix feared took place at the same time. But thanks to him, we were ready.

(Continued on next post!)
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

19-May-2022 04:54:12

A Mighty

A Mighty

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Remember that from the Guthix Hall of Memories, his three biggest fears for the universe were the Great Revision, Shadow Breach, and Broken Needle. All three of these things occurred during Extinction. The Great Revision was thwarted by the eggs hatching on Iaia instead of Gielinor, and the Broken Needle was used by Kerapac to counter Jas. It's the Shadow Breach to Erebus that most directly ties into this theory. We would not have survived Erebus without the power infused in us by Guthix and primed by Sliske. Had this not have happened, Kerapac's Broken Needle would have been thwarted by Jas, who would not have been sucked into Erebus, and the Great Revision would have taken place on Gielinor. So kudos to Guthix for having the foresight to counter all of these things!

As of Extinction, I consider this to be the practical end of this theory. The one thing I'm not entirely sure about is the Broken Needle, and if there are repercussions now that the Needle has broken. However, that will likely be irrelevant to the theory of Guthix and Sliske working together, as would be any developments by Zaros on Erebus. I have truly enjoyed coming up with this theory, and I hope you enjoyed reading it! I have truly found this bit of lore to be the best subplot of the Elder God Storyline.
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

19-May-2022 04:54:18 - Last edited on 19-May-2022 05:01:58 by A Mighty

A Mighty

A Mighty

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So the new quest, Twilight of the Gods, has been released. It includes more lore about this topic. SPOILERS for Twilight of the Gods ahead! You have been warned!!



At the very end of the quest, the Light and Shadow voices reveal themselves to be manifestations of Guthix and Sliske, respectively. This goes along perfectly with what I wrote in the posts above, as light and shadow are balanced.

The more interesting reveal in this quest is that these masks are also manifestations of our World Guardian powers, which were given to us by Guthix. However, it is confirmed yet again that he needed Sliske to transfer this power to us, which we will eventually use to re-enact the Edicts of Guthix. This was clearly Guthix's plan all along. He either manipulated Sliske into doing this, or Sliske willingly did it. I'm of the latter opinion, with everything I've said in this thread as evidence. This will almost certainly be the last time this topic comes up, as we will lose our World Guardian powers-- and the voices-- when we re-enact the Edicts. Thank you for reading this thread :)
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

09-Jun-2022 05:18:04

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