RuneScape Forum Archive | Guthix, Sliske, & Shadow Anima

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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Erebus is where the Mahjarrat as well as other unknown being spend their afterlives:

"Death is unaware of the existence of Erebus, while Icthlarin himself has yet to guide a Zarosian follower there. Azzanadra claims that Erebus is where Zaros' faithful go upon death, unlike the "creation" of the "pretender" Guthix. The realm itself is virtually unknown, as no one has returned from Erebus; however, those attuned to the current of magic are able to sense the soul depart, but not know of its end location, so they simply called the destination Erebus.[2]"

https://runescape.wiki/w/Erebus

Since Raksha also mentioned Erebus (I'll pull you to Erebus), and Raksha is related to Xau-Tak, it is quite likely Erebus is related to the Kingdom of Shadow.

Only highly attuned NPCs like Azzanadra can detect such "magic" souls that go to Erebus after death, not the other Mahjarrat. It is also why Azzanadra can tell Seren and the "Mah" that told them about the Ritual of Mahjarrat are the same person. It is also why Azzanadra can tell us Wen did not corrupt Mah's egg but it was the black stone that controlled Arrav... or very likely Xau-Tak.

25-Mar-2021 23:28:28 - Last edited on 25-Mar-2021 23:36:17 by Dilbert2001

Hguoh

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So rather than take the word of literally every Mahjarrat that discusses their species death and afterlife, including Azzanadra, you are instead going with Azzanadra's statement, one that he explicitly exempts Mahjarrat from, that Zarosian souls, souls that Mahjarrat explicitly lack even according to Azzanadra, go to Erebus for their afterlife, afterlifes being where souls of the deceased go or are taken to after being detached from their bodies which cannot happen with Mahjarrat since they do not have a soul. Methinks there is a problem in the logic leading to your conclusion, Dilbert.

26-Mar-2021 10:19:54 - Last edited on 26-Mar-2021 10:46:29 by Hguoh

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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Hguoh said :
So rather than take the word of literally every Mahjarrat that discusses their species death and afterlife, including Azzanadra, you are instead going with Azzanadra's statement, one that he explicitly exempts Mahjarrat from, that Zarosian souls, souls that Mahjarrat explicitly lack even according to Azzanadra, go to Erebus for their afterlife, afterlifes being where souls of the deceased go or are taken to after being detached from their bodies which cannot happen with Mahjarrat since they do not have a soul. Methinks there is a problem in the logic leading to your conclusion, Dilbert.

What is the "problem in the logic leading to my conclusion"? You haven't identified any. It is all logical and at least there are others who share the same logics from the RS Wiki.

The pink elephant in your logic remains you have yet to come up with why Azzanadra would tell us about Erebus which he also learned from "his lord", meaning Zaros.

Why is Azzanadra's words he also learned from Zaros not believable? If Azzanadra could end the thousands years old hoax of Ritual of Mahjarrat by unveiling Seren's impersonation of Mah thousands years ago with the signature of the magic she used, it is eminently logicial he can identify other forms of "magic", "souls", "anima" or whatever similar.

26-Mar-2021 14:50:26

Hguoh

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You are ignoring the part where Azzanadra points out, in the same quote I might add, that nothing about Erebus as an afterlife applies to Mahjarrat because they do not have a soul via which they could travel to it upon death. And it is precisely because we know Azzanadra can detect souls that we can trust his statement that Mahjarrat don't have one to go on the post-mortem journey to the unknown destination that is Erebus. This isn't hard, Dilbert. In RS lore some aspect of the self needs be able survive the death of the body in order to possibly make it to an afterlife once one dies. This aspect is known as a soul, and those who lack one have no part of their self that persists after death. The closest Mahjarrat get on their own are their memories preserved in their crystals.

26-Mar-2021 22:04:24 - Last edited on 26-Mar-2021 22:15:20 by Hguoh

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
You are ignoring the part where Azzanadra points out, in the same quote I might add, that nothing about Erebus as an afterlife applies to Mahjarrat because they do not have a soul via which they could travel to it upon death. And it is precisely because we know Azzanadra can detect souls that we can trust his statement that Mahjarrat don't have one to go on the post-mortem journey to the unknown destination that is Erebus. This isn't hard, Dilbert. In RS lore some aspect of the self needs be able survive the death of the body in order to possibly make it to an afterlife once one dies. This aspect is known as a soul, and those who lack one have no part of their self that persists after death. The closest Mahjarrat get on their own are their memories preserved in their crystals.

Again, clearly Azzanadra said they don't need "souls" to go get an afterlife. Whoever contributed to the Erebus RS Wiki page got it right. What Icthlarin calls a "soul" can be similar things that carries the knowledge and other characters of the dead entity Azzanadra and Zaros and other highly attuned Mahjarrat can detect as "magical energy".

BTW, feel free to "correct" the RS Wiki if you think they are wrong.

27-Mar-2021 01:29:07 - Last edited on 27-Mar-2021 01:29:47 by Dilbert2001

Hguoh

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Azzanadra never said you didn't need a soul to go to Erebus. In fact given his statement prior that none of this applies to Mahjarrat because they don't have souls, it's quite clear that he doesn't think Mahjarrat go to Erebus.

Equally, the Wiki makes no mention of soulless beings going to Erebus. It does however again restate that it is the unknown destination of Zarosian souls. Kind of hard for your soul to have a destination, known or unknown, if you don't have one.

But hey, take up your own bollucks challenge and edit the Wiki page to say that the consciousness of Zarosian Mahjarrat end up in Erebus. Surely if you are right it won't be removed.

27-Mar-2021 18:29:18

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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Hguoh said :
Azzanadra never said you didn't need a soul to go to Erebus. In fact given his statement prior that none of this applies to Mahjarrat because they don't have souls, it's quite clear that he doesn't think Mahjarrat go to Erebus.

Equally, the Wiki makes no mention of soulless beings going to Erebus. It does however again restate that it is the unknown destination of Zarosian souls. Kind of hard for your soul to have a destination, known or unknown, if you don't have one.

But hey, take up your own bollucks challenge and edit the Wiki page to say that the consciousness of Zarosian Mahjarrat end up in Erebus. Surely if you are right it won't be removed.

When there is a "destination after death", there must be afterlive or the "soul", "magical energy", "anima" or whachamacallsit will have vanished. Azzanadra clearly stated he can sense the "magical energy" and his lord, meaning Zaros, told him Erebus is where such "magical energy" is going to after death. Zaros may know where is Erebus or even how is afterlive likes there, especially when Erebus is likely tied to Xau-Tak and he is also seemingly on his side now.

I don't have to edit the RS Wiki, as I agree with it. It clearly states everything I said, including Erebus.

27-Mar-2021 19:13:53

Hguoh

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Oh you agree with the wiki? Wouldn't it be awkward if I were to post this little snippet from the trivia part of the Mahjarrat page on the wiki then?

Mahjarrat do not have souls and, as such, do not have an afterlife. However, the gems in their forehead retain their final living memories, and persist after their deaths.

27-Mar-2021 20:26:30

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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Hguoh said :
Oh you agree with the wiki? Wouldn't it be awkward if I were to post this little snippet from the trivia part of the Mahjarrat page on the wiki then?

Mahjarrat do not have souls and, as such, do not have an afterlife. However, the gems in their forehead retain their final living memories, and persist after their deaths.

Note that I agreed with the Erebus page, not the one you quoted. Besides, the person who contributed to your Wiki quote probably didn't play Azzanadra's Quest or haven't gotten a chance to update his quote.

27-Mar-2021 21:28:50

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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Actually we already know afterlife exist outside Itchlarin's Underworld long ago. Remember the reason the Mahjarrat turned against the desert gods? It was said to be a dispute between the two sides on whether the dead Zarosian should belong to Itchlarin. Since the breakup, Sliske was able to control the undeads he raised from the Shadow Realm. There we go... we knew there is afterlife that Icthlarin doesn't know and have no control of, at least in the Shadow Realm. Would that be Erebus? Or there can also be other places for different kinds of afterlive too.

The writings have been on the stone for thousands of years, just that perhaps nobody is aware of the existence of afterlife of NPCs who don't have "souls" or have different kinds of "souls" Itchlarin doesn't know of.

29-Mar-2021 19:58:08

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