RuneScape Forum Archive | Guthix, Sliske, & Shadow Anima

A Mighty

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Mod Raven on Guthix's death:

Original message details are unavailable.
Q: when was the idea that guthix planned his death etc all along thought of? (Did it exist back in 2013 or only much later)?

Raven: It's been the idea for a long while that Guthix effectively planned all of this. There have been a few variations since 2013, and honestly I can't remember if back then it was the plan (I think it was though) but it's been our working understanding that he was aware and set key things in motion. Though some of those things have changed.

Not directly related, but perhaps still noteworthy.

To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

14-Mar-2021 04:51:17

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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A Mighty said :
Mod Raven on Guthix's death:

Original message details are unavailable.
Q: when was the idea that guthix planned his death etc all along thought of? (Did it exist back in 2013 or only much later)?

Raven: It's been the idea for a long while that Guthix effectively planned all of this. There have been a few variations since 2013, and honestly I can't remember if back then it was the plan (I think it was though) but it's been our working understanding that he was aware and set key things in motion. Though some of those things have changed.

Not directly related, but perhaps still noteworthy.

It was pretty much linked to Guthix's original World Guadian, Aeternam who eventually fused with a few Guthix Guardians to create the Balance Elemental in While Guthix Sleeps.

Guthix's memory in Azzanadra's Quest made a reference to his failed experience with Aeternam and the Balance Elemental, but not directly mentioning her name.

21-Mar-2021 03:44:37

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

A Mighty said :
Mod Raven on Guthix's death:

Original message details are unavailable.
Q: when was the idea that guthix planned his death etc all along thought of? (Did it exist back in 2013 or only much later)?

Raven: It's been the idea for a long while that Guthix effectively planned all of this. There have been a few variations since 2013, and honestly I can't remember if back then it was the plan (I think it was though) but it's been our working understanding that he was aware and set key things in motion. Though some of those things have changed.

Not directly related, but perhaps still noteworthy.

It was pretty much linked to Guthix's original World Guadian, Aeternam who eventually fused with a few Guthix Guardians to create the Balance Elemental in While Guthix Sleeps.

Guthix's memory in Azzanadra's Quest made a reference to his failed experience with Aeternam and the Balance Elemental, but not directly mentioning her name.

21-Mar-2021 03:44:39

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

A Mighty said :
It seems Guthix used the Staff of Armadyl to transfer some of his own magic into Sliske. My immediate thought is: Could this have affected his personality? His actions, ever since the death of Guthix-- culminating in his fusion to our soul. How much of this could have been guided by Guthix? Perhaps Guthix was a voice in Sliske's head just like how Sliske is now a voice in our head? Could Sliske have entered our soul on direction from Guthix-- the same way (a fragment of) Guthix entered Sliske upon his death?

There is a clear motive for Guthix to want Sliske to perform such an action. Take a look at a different passage in Guthix's memory:

Original message details are unavailable.
Once part of them, their soul would adapt and change, absorbing anima and shadow anima alike. Growing, slowly, in power and preparing itself for the task ahead. Indeed they would find themselves connected to power they would never expect. They would be in constant connection with the Codex, absorbing the shadow anima in a steady flow even as they absorb the flow of anima around them. Its powers could enhance them, strengthen them and prepare them for the trials ahead. However, such an enchantment would need to be primed, unlocked, and that would require an outside force.

again, emphasis mine. It seems our World Guardian powers must be primed, and Sliske is the one to do this. Sliske entering our soul makes perfect sense now-- it may have been needed for us to fully realize our powers as World Guardian! I end by referring to the bolded passage from the quote on the last post. Guthix used his magic to essentially make Sliske obsessed with us. And thus, him entering our soul is simply a logical step of his obsession. I believe all that has transpired with Sliske and us has been the will of Guthix.

I really don't think so. Azzy clearly refuted the the misconception of Mahjarrat has no after-life. Silsike should be in Erebus now with Lucien et al.

21-Mar-2021 04:05:22

Dec

2023

Cthris

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Dilbert2001 said :

I really don't think so. Azzy clearly refuted the the misconception of Mahjarrat has no after-life. Silsike should be in Erebus now with Lucien et al.

I'm pretty sure Azzanadra clearly refuted the opposite. Here is the transcript from the quest.

Azzanadra:
Obviously, none of this applies to Mahjarrat, as we do not have souls . But when a mortal of the faithful dies, their soul passes on from this world to another. Those attuned to the currents of magic can sense its passing, but we do not know the destination. We call that unknown place 'Erebus'.

I don't know where Silsike is, but Sliske is not in Erebus.

22-Mar-2021 00:43:17 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2021 00:45:18 by Cthris

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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"Player:
Are you saying Zarosians do have an afterlife?
Azzanadra:
Of course. Every stabilising religion needs to answer that question. We call it Erebus."

Player:
What's it like?
Azzanadra:
I have no idea. It's the afterlife - no one has ever returned to speak of it.

He said Mahjarrat doesn't have "soul" what Icthlarin calls and detects, but they do have conscience (current of magic) and while the dead bodies perish, the conscience (like Shadow and Light the World Guardian keeps hearing from the quest). Mahjarrat doesn't go to the Icthlarin Afterlight, but they have afterlife in Erebus, which interesting is what Rahska told the World Guardian that's where he will pull him to.

Note (1) Mahjarrat is mortal too. They do die and move to an unknown destination they called Erebus but no dead Mahjarrat has ever returned to lfie or came back as undeads to tell where it is and how the Afterlife is like, but (2) non-Mahjarrat mortals do know where they go to after death, and can return and tell us the stories like Zanik came back with the story of the Bandosian Afterlife the World Guaridian has also witnessed, as well as other ghosts, zombies, ghouls etc.

22-Mar-2021 01:26:34 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2021 01:41:53 by Dilbert2001

Dec

2023

Cthris

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a) He clearly states that Erebus is the place where Zarosian souls go. He says nothing about Mahjarrat going there. He specifically says that nothing of his talk about the afterlife or Erebus applies to Mahjarrat. Saying they have an afterlife in Erebus is a complete lie.

b) You're conflating soul with consciousness--bad metaphysics, bad psychology.

c) The grammar of the passage also very clearly contrasts mahjarrat with mortals.

Don't expect further replies.

22-Mar-2021 02:21:52

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Cthris said :
a) He clearly states that Erebus is the place where Zarosian souls go. He says nothing about Mahjarrat going there. He specifically says that nothing of his talk about the afterlife or Erebus applies to Mahjarrat. Saying they have an afterlife in Erebus is a complete lie.

b) You're conflating soul with consciousness--bad metaphysics, bad psychology.

c) The grammar of the passage also very clearly contrasts mahjarrat with mortals.

Don't expect further replies.

The World Guardians asked the questions for Zarosians because Azzanadra is a Zarosian. Why would Zarosian Mahjarrat has afterlife but non-Zarosian Mahjarrat doesn't?

"It is not the way of our lord to invent false narratives to appeal to the plebeians."

His Lord Zaros told him about Erebus and Afterlive and why would Zaros lie?

Mahjarrat is clearly mortals. Their number of diminishing from wars and only hundreds were left in the 2nd Age and now even less. They are clearly mortals.

Soul, anima, conscience, intellect are all inter-related according to Aristotle's De Anim or On the Soul. Of course, if you are calling one of the world's greatest philosopher and psychologist contracting, you don't need to reply because this post is intended for all users to share their opinions.

22-Mar-2021 02:47:02

Hguoh

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Just gonna put this CoM quote right here for Dilbert:

Player:
Why do Mahjarrat have crystals on their foreheads?

Wahisietel:
A valid question, if an unusual one to ask now. One answer will be less than satisfying. We were made by Mah, and she simply made us that way. We were likely formed from the same crystal that covers Zaros and Seren's bodies. But that gives rise to other questions. Were we made from Zaros? Are we children of Zaros, not Mah? Like the elven city, were we constructed from Seren? We will never find out now. When we die, our crystals remain, yet the rest rots away. It is likely, then, to be our source of power, our long life. It may even be the substance that denies us an afterlife. To answer your question, why do we have these crystals? It is because these crystals are who we are.

Mahjarrat don't get an afterlife, Wahisietal acknowledges this (only speculating as to what may be the cause) just as Cthris's Azzanadra quote equally points out (unless you count the preservation of their memories within their crystals (see: Mahjarrat deathstones) an afterlife, though I view it more as an echo/recording of what their consciousness was in life).

That's kind of why Sliske took a piece of our soul for himself and later seems to have grafted his consciousness onto our soul when we killed him.

24-Mar-2021 00:29:11 - Last edited on 24-Mar-2021 00:36:26 by Hguoh

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
Just gonna put this CoM quote right here for Dilbert:

Player:
Why do Mahjarrat have crystals on their foreheads?

Wahisietel:
A valid question, if an unusual one to ask now. One answer will be less than satisfying. We were made by Mah, and she simply made us that way. We were likely formed from the same crystal that covers Zaros and Seren's bodies. But that gives rise to other questions. Were we made from Zaros? Are we children of Zaros, not Mah? Like the elven city, were we constructed from Seren? We will never find out now. When we die, our crystals remain, yet the rest rots away. It is likely, then, to be our source of power, our long life. It may even be the substance that denies us an afterlife. To answer your question, why do we have these crystals? It is because these crystals are who we are.

Mahjarrat don't get an afterlife, Wahisietal acknowledges this (only speculating as to what may be the cause) just as Cthris's Azzanadra quote equally points out (unless you count the preservation of their memories within their crystals (see: Mahjarrat deathstones) an afterlife, though I view it more as an echo/recording of what their consciousness was in life).

That's kind of why Sliske took a piece of our soul for himself and later seems to have grafted his consciousness onto our soul when we killed him.

Again, you are confused by "not having souls" as "not having afterlife". "Souls" exists in many form. They are like anima, energy, magic or something similar but not Mahjarrat not having the kind of "souls" Icthlarin can detect doesn't mean Mahjarrat doesn't have their kind of anima/energy/magic that carries their thoughts like souls into their afterlife in Erebus.

If they don't have afterlife, why did Azzanadra mention Erebus?

25-Mar-2021 23:20:58

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