RuneScape Forum Archive

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Resource Island/ fishing spot that not all crewmembers can use

If a resource island or fishing spot wouldn’t appear as a probability for any of the crewmembers, it will not show as a probability at all.

Waterbirth Island

As Waterbirth Island is not big enough to warrant a port, nor is it an island which has a civilisation, I think it would be best that Waterbirth Island is classed as a resource island someplace in the Fremennik sea. I am unsure what to do with the boat that currently takes players there, as it may seem unnecessary to have two sea-based methods to get there.

Crandor

Crandor can also be classed as a resource island someplace in the misthalin sea, similar to Waterbirth.

Entrana

Entrana is more difficult because it requires that the player has no weapons or items. Therefore it can be the case that a player can only exit the boat to come out on Entrana if they pass the no weapons/armour check that they would have if they went from Port Sarim.

Dragontooth Island

Dragontooth can also be classed as a resource island someplace in the morytania sea, similar to Waterbirth. It may not be necessary as dragontooth island doesn’t really have any use outside of the quest so there may be no need to have it as a resource island. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:37:11 - Last edited on 18-Jul-2015 03:47:30 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Charter Ships

This is a similar problem. Charter ships as they exist currently pretty much negate sailing’s use as a transportation method between ports. Therefore, I think it would be best if charter ships are nerfed to take much longer to get to the destination, so that sailing will be the quickest method to get around, or charter ships are just removed entirely.

While this may seem unfair to charter boat users, I think it is fair. My contention with charter boats is that they have no lore and so do not have any integral reason to be there. Thus, I think they were likely added simply as another, easier way to get around the map. The fact that they came first shouldn’t afford them higher status than that of sailing; since if sailing had been added first charter ships would likely not even be considered. I don’t think charter ships are very widely used so I doubt there would be significant outcry at their nerf/ removal.

Then again, barely anyone uses charter ships anyways, so I doubt sailing would be used much for inter-port travel even if they were removed. They could probably stay and it wouldn’t make terribly much difference.

Accessibility for pures

Everything to do with sailing is accessible to a pure as nothing requires defence. They may not be able to use some ports due to not having the quest unlocked but will still be able to get to any sea via another sea.

Accessibility for skillers

Everything is accessible to skillers too as no combat skills are required. They will have trouble in PvP/PvM scenarios but that is a reflection of what a skiller would expect in the mainland game. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:37:14 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2014 19:13:16 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Accessibility for a player fresh off Tutorial Island

This is taking an example of a player with 1 in every skill who only wants to train sailing: how easily would they be able to train?

The answer, I believe, is “relatively easily, at first”. Aside from the construction requirement that is necessary to build better boats, they will at least be able to start the skill off with 1 construction. In that case they can train with this low level boat, or can get on higher level boats once they have the necessary sailing level if it’s another person’s boat, or they can buy a shipbuilding contract.

However the new player’s training methods are somewhat limited, if existent at all. They can train by exploring squares and travelling between squares but not much else.

Nonetheless, I think this is an exemplary situation and should not be treated with much importance as it is contrary to the aim of sailing. The aim of sailing is to assist other skills and be trained as a by-product of other activities, not to be trained exclusively. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:38:23 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2014 19:14:02 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The Rellekka port: should it require the Fremennik Trials?

I strongly think it shouldn’t. The way the seas are laid out, I have ranked them by how dangerous they would logically seem. Thus, the fremennik sea looked to be more dangerous than misthalin and kandarin, but not as dangerous as the wilderness and the others. This leads to a dilemma, as the fremennik sea is not accessible from misthalin nor kandarin, and if rellekka required a quest, there would be no way for a pure/ skiller to get access until of a level to use the wilderness sea, in which case they would always have to get there via a very dangerous sea.

As one of the fundamental aims of my design for this skill is accessibility, I think it is very important that the fremennik sea can be visited regardless of account status. Therefore, Rellekka should not require the Fremennik trials to use.

Other seas will not have this problem, as the morytania sea can be accessed from misthalin and the tirannwn sea from kandarin.

Getting on/off resource islands

I don’t think there is a particularly clean way to go about this, so just a small portal at some edge of the island would be where you arrive when you choose to go to a resource island, and where you can go back to the boat.

Logging out/teleporting

This is a bit more of a tricky problem to solve. Hopefully, occurrences of this happening will be reduced since the actual time on the boat is relatively short when travelling. Most of the time is spent at the resource island/fishing spot/ port/ underwater area, which is not instanced and the boat will not sink while there.

There are multiple scenarios I have tried to consider. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:38:27 - Last edited on 18-Jul-2015 03:49:59 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Players logs out/teleports on boat, crew is no longer enough to fill minimum requirements.

In this case, the players can move out of their positions and stop the boat, instead keeping the boat repaired so that it did*’t sink. They can continue doing this until the player logs back in. In the event the players cannot keep the boat repaired quickly enough, there can be an option for a “mayday option” which is similar to the home teleport. It will return the boat to the nearest port, but has a time limit to prevent it being abused.

Disconnection/ all players log out on boat

In the event of a disconnection where all players are logged out, the boat can be held in limbo, not taking any more damage until the players log back in.

Player logs out on boat, crew is still sufficient, logs back in later

If the boat is in a different location to that which it was when the player logged out, the player will be in the new location when they log back in. If the boat is moved to a port, the player logs back in at the port. Luring will not be a problem if wilderness ports are safe.

Captain logs out

Without the captain, there is nobody controlling the navigation map and so the boat cannot move anywhere. The remaining crew can either wait for the captain to return or use the mayday option. The mayday option will only work if all the players vote on it – the captain has overriding control of the option though (eg, if the captain wants to mayday, they will. If the crew wants to mayday, they all must). Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:39:27 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2014 19:14:39 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ddosing a player on boat, moving ship to wilderness to lure them

The boat won't be able to enter the wilderness sea if there is a player still classed as on the boat but has logged out. All players that went on the boat must be present, and confirm they want to enter, in order to go into the wilderness sea. Plus, you can't attack your own crew.

Logging out/teleporting at a resource island; insufficient crew to return

This should hopefully be mitigated by the fact that resource islands are mostly intended for solo players, in a similar vein to running to a location to obtain some items, then running back to the bank. Resource islands work similarly; take a bit longer to get there, get more of the item (as there is cargo for additional inventory), then take it back to port to bank.

However, if it must be the case that a team of players go to the island together, and one of them logs out, the remaining players can either wait for them to return or use the mayday option to return. If they use the mayday option and the player logs back in stranded on the island, the player can still use a home teleport to get back.

The player that logged out is still classed as part of the crew and a split of the cargo will still be sent to their bank upon arrival at a port. If they teleport away they will no longer be classed as part of the crew and will not receive their split.

Captain logs out/teleports on resource island

The remaining crew can't get back on the boat (as they can't use the “go to friend’s boat” option) so they must wait for him to return or teleport away. If the captain leaves the island (via teleport) the boat is returned to port but will lose its cargo. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:39:31 - Last edited on 18-Jul-2015 03:52:40 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Troublesome player not helping to run the boat

This shouldn’t be too much of a problem for the same reason as logging out/teleporting. If this proves to be a problem the captain can return the ship to port, where they will then have the option to kick the player. I don’t think kicking should work while at sea as this threw up too many problems that I think, given the boat can return to port in minutes, it was better to keep the option as only usable at ports.

Abusing infinite plank/cloth/steel bar spawn

Assuming there is a spawn of these on the boats to make repairs with, there is potential for it to be abused if not considered. Players could continue picking them up, dump them in the cargo, repeat, to bring loads of them into game.

I see two solutions. First; they cannot be put into the cargo or taken off the boat. Second; new items are created instead which have no use outside of the boat (eg Boat plank, sail cloth, metal).

Random Events

There are no random events when you are on the boat as I feel this would overcomplicate things. There will be random events when at resource islands or when fishing. Salvaging random events could be pretty funny... imagine getting a visit from the mysterious old man in scuba gear! (Or maybe he received a swimsuit as a gift from another old man?!)

Pirate ship cargo does not have enough free space for victim ship’s cargo

If there could be a way for the captain to choose which loot they put into their cargo, then that is I think the best solution. Else, overflow would likely just have to be destroyed. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:39:44 - Last edited on 18-Jul-2015 03:54:12 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Anti-Botting Considerations

This is something that definitely needs to be considered: how able will bots be to exploit sailing and what steps can be taken to counteract them?

I am making the assumption that there are 4 scenarios:
1) Player is botting solo
2) Player is botting while freeloading as part of a team
3) Player is botting while participating actively in a team
4) Player travels legitimately to resource, bots when there

Scenario 1
First, sailing is fairly complex, insofar as I don’t anticipating it being a skill that a player can ever know fully, inside-out, but where there is always some unknown. Not unlike the actual sea, if you don’t mind a bit of poetic irony! Thus, I daresay it will at least be very, very hard to program a bot that can deal with sailing as an entirety.

However if we narrow it down to a bot only programmed to go to a resource island, collect resource, return, bank, repeat, it becomes a bit more tricky. This is where the idea that sailing does not involve all that much time on the boat proves to be detrimental rather than advantageous.

Nonetheless, I am sure there are steps that can be taken to hinder bots. For one, I think the unpredictability of dangers should be helpful at least. Secondly, the fact that only 3 tiers of boat are available to a solo player means that the danger in high level seas will cause damage so fast it will be very difficult, if not impossible for a solo player to keep a boat afloat. That should make the highest level resources off limits to solo botters. They would be able to access the resources in lower level seas, but as these are a lot more mundane they will not dramatically alter the economy. Finally, some dangers could be programmed such that they require an amount of creativity to solve. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:40:48 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2014 19:16:27 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Scenario 2
The captain can kick them if they are freeloading. If the captain is condoning the bot, it’s a lot more difficult to stop. However, given there are 3 spots that need to be filled (probably 4 in the higher level seas), that means that there can be at most 2 bots for every 3 players. That at least can hinder them slightly: there would need to be more active players than bots at all times, which would be more effort than a bot owner would want (going by the logic that they’re botting because they can*t be bothered playing the time it would take to get the reward).

Scenario 3
Now, this one is very difficult to stamp out. I think it can be stemmed by the fact that some mutual reliance, communication and problem solving capability is required in order to keep the boat functional, and while I don’t know if that is possible for a bot, I assume it would make it rather more difficult to program such a bot.

Scenario 4
This should be somewhat difficult for resources that would have to be banked. For items that can stack or could be dropped, it’s much more difficult. I’m not sure how this could be solved as it’s essentially identical to botting on mainland runescape. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:40:54 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2014 02:45:22 by San

Jul

2023

San

Posts: 4,259 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Balancing Considerations

Being that sailing is an assistive skill, some consideration has to be made on how these alternative methods to train skills will affect the current methods. I will now give some thought to how each skill may be affected by the additional methods introduced by sailing.

First is to consider the 3 variables that need to be considered when creating these methods: Exp speed, Profitability and Afkability. A balance of all 3 is required; so I think it fair that one can be increased at the expense of another.

Fishing

Fishing is a difficult one as it stands to logical reason that boat-based fishing would be faster than river based fishing: at least in the real world! A multiperson trawler can catch a load more fish than a man in a river.

However, the integrity of oldschool must remain.

As far as I am aware, the two current best methods for fishing are barbarian assault (high exp/low profit/ low afkability) and shilo (less exp, more profit, more afk).

I think that at its peak, sailing should be more exp than shilo but less than barbarian. The best rate would be with huge net fishing. Since the fish caught (mackerel, bass, cod) are relatively dead markets already there will be little to no profit obtained. The method is more afk than barb but less than shilo.

Assigning a value of 1-3 (1 lowest, 3 highest) we have the table:

Exp rate: Barbarian (3), Sailing (2), Shilo (1)
Profit: Shilo (3), Sailing (2), Barbarian (1)
Afkability: Shilo (3), Sailing (2), Barbarian (1)

I consider this to be balanced, since the exp rate is the one we are most concerned about protecting. Barbarian maintains its status as the most exp, shilo as most profit/afkability, and sailing is a balance of all 3. Sailing

23-Aug-2014 02:42:05 - Last edited on 24-Aug-2014 00:00:56 by San

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