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Mel 624
Dec Member 2021

Mel 624

Posts: 744 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
OP has a point about the Ali thing. The reason they needed to go rename NPCs was because the joke about everyone in the desert having the name Ali is a form of stereotyping. The player is meant to find it funny that a good chunk of named NPCs in the desert are Ali. It's similar to saying you think everyone of a given minority looks the same.

The name itself wasn't the issue so much as how it was being used. The problem with leaving Aligra Nite intact is that it's a made up name meant to tie into the joke where even an NPC who isn't technically Ali is still another Ali but as a pun this time. To fully address the original issue he should've been one of the renamed NPCs.

It's perfectly fair to be upset at the inconsistent way Jagex went about addressing the issue and questioning how dedicated they are about actually solving those problems if they aren't applying it to OSRS. How to block a forum user

Death And Taxes: An Analysis

08-Feb-2022 10:19:31

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mel 624 said :
OP has a point about the Ali thing. The reason they needed to go rename NPCs was because the joke about everyone in the desert having the name Ali is a form of stereotyping. The player is meant to find it funny that a good chunk of named NPCs in the desert are Ali. It's similar to saying you think everyone of a given minority looks the same.

The name itself wasn't the issue so much as how it was being used. The problem with leaving Aligra Nite intact is that it's a made up name meant to tie into the joke where even an NPC who isn't technically Ali is still another Ali but as a pun this time. To fully address the original issue he should've been one of the renamed NPCs.

It's perfectly fair to be upset at the inconsistent way Jagex went about addressing the issue and questioning how dedicated they are about actually solving those problems if they aren't applying it to OSRS.

Once again, please show me in the rules where it states that jagex cant name characters whatever they want?

Just because ppl get offended by something isnt a reason for a change.

Im getting offended by ppl getting offended by this change, thus by that logic it shouldnt happen right?

Thus theres no "issue" here besides ppl getting angry over nothing.
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

08-Feb-2022 11:16:32

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
ToP BaSS said :
Immortalized said :
What I posted was just factual.

No it wasn't. Hence the number of posts that disagree with you.

Agreed.

Lets not overlook vital posts please just because they disagree with the statement at hand.

The only "fact" posted so far is that jagex can name things w/e they want and theres nothing anyone can do.
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

08-Feb-2022 11:19:01

GhostlyBard

GhostlyBard

Posts: 4,332 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said :
The only "fact" posted so far is that jagex can name things w/e they want and theres nothing anyone can do.
Just to play devils advocate if Jagex did decide to name a character something grossly inappropriate, then you can get bet your house that it’ll get changed. Due to the backlash it’d receive.
A fact would be that my hat is green. What your stating is your opinion based on how you believe Jagex would operate. Check out Thieves guild layout redesign. Happy ‘scaping

08-Feb-2022 15:16:38 - Last edited on 08-Feb-2022 15:19:31 by GhostlyBard

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
ToP BaSS said :
Immortalized said :
What I posted was just factual.

No it wasn't. Hence the number of posts that disagree with you. I can post 2+2 = 4, and many posts can disagree with me, but that does not matter, 2 + 2 = 4 is still factual and even if you disagreed with it, it does not change it.

This is what I said was factual:
Original message details are unavailable.
If you disagree with their original hypothesis, that is fine, I can understand why you would disagree, but the fact is that they have only half-executed this action by leaving a fork of their game in the same state it was before they decided to enact this change. So by their own definition they are still violating what they claimed. For some reason you think this statement is not factual. Sorry but I cannot help you understand if you reject this, the same way I cannot help someone that thinks 2 + 2 does not equal 4. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

08-Feb-2022 15:37:15

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mel 624 said :
OP has a point about the Ali thing. The reason they needed to go rename NPCs was because the joke about everyone in the desert having the name Ali is a form of stereotyping. The player is meant to find it funny that a good chunk of named NPCs in the desert are Ali. It's similar to saying you think everyone of a given minority looks the same.

The name itself wasn't the issue so much as how it was being used. The problem with leaving Aligra Nite intact is that it's a made up name meant to tie into the joke where even an NPC who isn't technically Ali is still another Ali but as a pun this time. To fully address the original issue he should've been one of the renamed NPCs.

It's perfectly fair to be upset at the inconsistent way Jagex went about addressing the issue and questioning how dedicated they are about actually solving those problems if they aren't applying it to OSRS. Thanks for understanding, even though this seems like a simple thing to understand I feel many people here have taken this thread as a way to vent about their own personal antagonism to such efforts on a broad scale. This post is on the mark and completely affirms the stance and point I am making here, that Jagex fell short and did not do a good enough job and has continued to leave one of their games in blatant violation of these efforts they want us to believe they care about. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

08-Feb-2022 15:40:08

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said :
ToP BaSS said :
Immortalized said :
What I posted was just factual.

No it wasn't. Hence the number of posts that disagree with you.

Agreed.

Lets not overlook vital posts please just because they disagree with the statement at hand.

The only "fact" posted so far is that jagex can name things w/e they want and theres nothing anyone can do. This was the fact I posted.
Original message details are unavailable.
If you disagree with their original hypothesis, that is fine, I can understand why you would disagree, but the fact is that they have only half-executed this action by leaving a fork of their game in the same state it was before they decided to enact this change. So by their own definition they are still violating what they claimed.
If you disagree with this being a fact, you are saying one of the following:
- Jagex did not half-execute this action by leaving a fork of their game in the same state it was before they decided to enact this change
- Jagex is not violating what they claimed

Both are false. Jagex left OSRS the same way. Jagex is also violating their claim because they never updated OSRS. It's fine to disagree with facts, there are some people who think the world is flat, for example, but there is nothing meaningful that can be accomplished by engaging with someone who rejects reality. So if you feel that way please keep to yourself or explain why you feel these very true statements are somehow not true in your alternate reality. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

08-Feb-2022 15:43:02

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
GhostlyBard said :
A fact would be that my hat is green. What your stating is your opinion based on how you believe Jagex would operate. See, this is what I am saying. I have only stated facts and people are disagreeing. The facts are that Jagex left a fork of RS3 without applying the same update. That is a fact, even if you do not like it. They are also violating the principles they claimed when they made this update, simply because they did not apply this update to OSRS. There is really no way to debate this, it is like debating 2+2=4. You can try, but we can prove 2+2=4, just like I can prove OSRS has many characters named Ali, Gypsy, etc. It's just a fact, whether or not you want to agree it's a fact is irrelevant.

Now if you disagree that this was a meaningful update, or disagree that this challenges diversity/racism, that's ok, that's your opinion. But I don't care, because that's not what I am talking about. To say you disagree with the facts I posted here is like saying you disagree 2+2=4, who cares if you disagree, it means nothing? Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

08-Feb-2022 15:46:49

Ms Toxicity
Jul
fmod Member
2004

Ms Toxicity

Forum Moderator Posts: 78,314 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To shed some light on the history of the changes made to NPCs' names in 2020, you may find the following pages of interest.


Patch Notes - 24/02

This thread is the summary/discussion of the patches released on 24 February 2020. The
Diversity Improvements
section outlines what had been done.


https://runescape.wiki/w/Ali


This RuneScape Wiki page lists the current NPCs that retain the name, Ali. The Wiki also shows the NPCs that were renamed, listing their current name and their former.


https://runescape.wiki/w/Transcript:A_NOTE_FROM_YOUR_MUM.#5


This page of the Wiki has a transcript of the
October 8, 2009 Postbag from the Hedge
. It offers an explanation as to why the Kharidian characters were called Ali. I tried searching for the original page on this website, however I am yet to locate it.



The discussion is becoming quite heated, so let's take a deep breath. You are welcome to post your point of view but let's remain focused on the topic of the thread.
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Forum Help
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08-Feb-2022 18:01:39 - Last edited on 08-Feb-2022 18:02:50 by Ms Toxicity

Mel 624
Dec Member 2021

Mel 624

Posts: 744 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said :


Once again, please show me in the rules where it states that jagex cant name characters whatever they want?

Just because ppl get offended by something isnt a reason for a change.

Im getting offended by ppl getting offended by this change, thus by that logic it shouldnt happen right?

Thus theres no "issue" here besides ppl getting angry over nothing.

This reasoning is flawed. Offense isn't the argument itself and to treat it as such is reductive and dismissive of what's actually being said. Jagex recognized that naming everyone Ali played into racist stereotypes and renamed most of the NPCs for that reason. OP is pointing out that not applying this change to OSRS fails to adequately address the issue Jagex themselves identified and made changes to account for. OP also took issue with the NPC Aligra Nite remaining unchanged as another way in which the update didn't adequately address the issue. It's the reasoning around those claims that you should be responding to, not the feelings attached.


Also to the thread in general, the number of people sharing a view has nothing to do with the validity of the arguments presented. That's an appeal to majority. How to block a forum user

Death And Taxes: An Analysis

08-Feb-2022 22:03:06

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