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Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

Posts: 9,764 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Whatusaytome said :
Well for the first part, I've explained how i would use it, but if you want to know why other people would want it, search the forums for any of the different threads for it and ask them all. I see it as an opinion without words and that seems useful to me, regardless if people try to abuse it with alts.


With all due respect, you're contradicting yourself. The votes obviously would matter if they'd be useful to you, yet in your previous post, you stated that it's actually the post content which matters and not the votes. I also agree with this part of your previous post, which strengthens the argument that this feature is not necessary.

Whatusaytome said :
second part, it isn't really censoring anything. people will still post how they do, if that's what they choose to do. If they are like you, or Dilbert, and think the votes would matter more than the posts, and you change your post to not get 'disliked' by as many people, whats wrong with that? I expect to get a heck of a lot of dislikes on my posts, and I don't plan on changing my posts to adjust for it. you can do the same, or not... Up to you.


Actually, it is yet another very good example of why the system is problematic. The basic idea is to either agree or get down-voted, even if your contribution to the topic is perfectly valid. I'm not sure why you're getting personal and making assumptions about what other users would do, either. The forums are available for everybody - not just me, not just you. If people want this system for the purposes you mentioned, they're probably already using Reddit instead.

Anyway, the concept of Reddit's down-vote and karma system is very different from the way it is actually utilised. If only to add numbers to a post and have no other impact, there is little point in it being there to begin with.
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16-Feb-2018 01:15:13

Spearmint30
Apr Member 2012

Spearmint30

Posts: 23,350 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Miles Prower said :
If only to add numbers to a post and have no other impact, there is little point in it being there to begin with.
This is where I'm getting conflicted on whether or not I actually support this now. lol
Spearmint30

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16-Feb-2018 01:25:16 - Last edited on 16-Feb-2018 01:25:57 by Spearmint30

Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

Posts: 9,764 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
FB Reactions don't show the equivalence of approval, support and such. They are basically just emoticons, something that FB prefers their users to use to express their emotions instead of showing support or disapproval of a post.


Indeed, and if I recall correctly, reasons for 'dislike button' requests in the first place were to respond to posts which contained, for lack of a better word, 'upsetting' news. It had nothing to do with post quality. It was also requested more often on a user/friend level than a business/fan level.
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16-Feb-2018 01:27:04

Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

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Spearmint30 said :
Miles Prower said :
If only to add numbers to a post and have no other impact, there is little point in it being there to begin with.
This is where I'm getting conflicted on whether or not I actually support this now. lol
to just add numbers to any post would be useful in it's own way, and it won't take long to see who your frequent haters are.

@miles, it wasn't getting personal and assuming what they would do, those 'assumptions' are what you guys claim to be the issues with the idea. You people are the ones comparing everything to reddit. If you don't think the forums should be like reddit, suggest something better.

If more people use reddit, including Jagex who use it more than their own system, maybe you should put some small things from there on these forums so Jagex might use them more.
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16-Feb-2018 11:24:25

Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

Posts: 9,764 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Whatusaytome said :
@miles, it wasn't getting personal and assuming what they would do, those 'assumptions' are what you guys claim to be the issues with the idea.


To quote the part of your post which reflects this activity: "If they are like you, or Dilbert, and think the votes would matter more than the posts, and you change your post to not get 'disliked' by as many people, whats wrong with that?"

Whatusaytome said :
You people are the ones comparing everything to reddit. If you don't think the forums should be like reddit, suggest something better.


"Us people" hold viewpoints which are just as valid as yours, and therefore, we have the privilege to express concerns and comment on suggestions. Reddit has a similar feature to the one being suggested, so yes, it is being compared. Makes perfect sense really.

Whatusaytome said :
If more people use reddit, including Jagex who use it more than their own system, maybe you should put some small things from there on these forums so Jagex might use them more.


The karma feature is not the reason Jagex is using Reddit. It is being used because that's where a lot of the player-base is, just like presence on other fansites a few years ago.

I feel like this could escalate to petty squabbling at this point, which isn't very pleasant to read. You have your viewpoints, and I have mine. I have expressed them, and have nothing more to say on the topic.
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16-Feb-2018 13:35:46

Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

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People use reddit for Runescape because Jagex uses reddit more than their own forums. Suggest something to bring Jagex back to their own forums. Suggest simple things to make Foruming QoL slightly more enjoyable, things that some people would use, even if some wouldn't.

Your "Karma" system is not why I support both Likes and Dislikes. Like I said, I see them as options to have an opinion on a post, without need for wasting post space. Regardless if it is Liked, or Disliked. I would know who dislikes it because of it being posted by me (theres a few who would do this, and no, it wouldn't bother me and it shouldn't bother you) and them only being personal about it...

As well as I would know any unique name in the list could either potentially be an alt to these people, or might actually be a new opinion on my posts. That is for me to think about, if I choose to, if I think about it ever or care to look.

It literally does not have to have a defined purpose such as showing popularity, or acting as support vs nonsupport. It doesn't only have to be a Like vs Dislike, It could be a 1-10 grading scale, it could be reactions like facebook, it can be unique. It can be made better!

Do something to be creative instead of just a scrooge.
Your opinions here can affect us all. Please post for the better

Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules , Trade Lock Scammers

16-Feb-2018 15:00:36 - Last edited on 16-Feb-2018 15:11:45 by Whatusaytome

Spearmint30
Apr Member 2012

Spearmint30

Posts: 23,350 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't think a like system is going to bring everyone back from Reddit, but that's just my opinion. I think I've settled that I support the idea to allow likes, but I don't think dislike should be an option. No need to post at all if you don't like the idea and having to post about your dislike almost requires an explanation, which leads to discussion and the potential to shape an idea into an improved version.
Spearmint30

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18-Feb-2018 19:32:57

Sharp-shin

Sharp-shin

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Spearmint30 said :
I don't think a like system is going to bring everyone back from Reddit, but that's just my opinion. I think I've settled that I support the idea to allow likes, but I don't think dislike should be an option. No need to post at all if you don't like the idea and having to post about your dislike almost requires an explanation, which leads to discussion and the potential to shape an idea into an improved version.

Tbh, it goes both ways; if you dislike/don't support, you should explain why, and if you like/do support, you should still do the same. That is because of e.g. the following two types of people:

1. Clannie supporters; people from the same clan as the OP, who post "support!" without any explanation quite soon after the OP posted the thread. This gives the implication that they're only supporting it because it's their clannie's thread, possibly without even knowing what the idea is if the clannie asked them to come and support their thread (which is why you often see these people post within the hour of the thread's creation, usually with next to non-existent previous forum history).

2. "Sympathy supporters"; unlike the first type, these people are also classified as a problem by Jagex itself (they briefly talked about this on a livestream before). These people typically support many ideas out of sympathy for the OP, wanting his wish to be fulfilled, but without actually considering whether idea would be beneficial for the game, and if it was, just how beneficial it would actually be (e.g. would it benefit half the playerbase, or just less than 1%).

It'd be better if the forums remained more meaningful than that, because currently, you can tell who has properly considered the idea in question and who hasn't. If you could just like without posting anything, you could no longer tell how many of those likes are meaningful and how many are e.g. a part of the above two types. > )
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18-Feb-2018 20:35:26

Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

Posts: 5,767 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Because posting how people do now is "meaningful"? It wouldn't be any different if people have something to say on the subject and " votes" shouldn't be treated as "votes" at all.

Nothing would be different in terms of people posting their opinions, and if your only concern is clannies and friends being asked to like this persons posts, you should realize how stupid that sounds. You are once again only thinking figuratively instead of realistically.

Again, likes are people simply letting somebody show they like a post without need to post in the thread when they don't have anything to say. You worry about clans and friends? There's bigger things to worry about, like giving people reasons to come to these forums.

These forums need a lot of updates beyond this one too, but the more features the better. Think about it like this.

I say people should be allowed to like a persons posts more than once and you people are more worried about thinking somebody is going to abuse hitting likes. Worrying that friends/clans will be hired to come to the forums to like more posts.

But you say nothing at all about those people Blackwing just mentioned who abuse nonexistent post history accounts to post support vs nonsupport anyway. Ignorance is Bliss.
Your opinions here can affect us all. Please post for the better

Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules , Trade Lock Scammers

19-Feb-2018 00:20:34

Dark Moon X5
Oct
fmod Member
2009

Dark Moon X5

Forum Moderator Posts: 13,130 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sharp-shin said :

No support, it'd discourage people from explaining why they like or dislike something. Currently, you can "like/dislike" via posting a reply that says so, and because of that, you might as well go more in-depth as to why you do that, when you're already typing something (just look at this post of mine for example, and then imagine if I would've just pressed a dislike button - you'd not know why I disliked your thread, you could only speculate).

Reddit is the place to go to if you want simple popularity contests; RS forums though, are more meaningful because you actually have to put some effort into it. > )


Actually super in agreement with this quote above, and probably why I wouldn't support this. It's one thing to have a like and dislike button on a post but it doesn't really contribute anything to an ongoing discussion. I think it generates a way more open field for actual discussion to participate and share opinions and ideas rather than hitting a like or dislike button. Not saying everyone would just use those buttons and *not* post, but at the end of the day I'm not sure how much these buttons would contribute vs just be extra visual noise. That's just my opinion though!
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19-Feb-2018 02:18:07

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