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Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

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Just a couple questions... If they decided to just add the option to Like or Dislike any post, why must those buttons be labeled falsely as something like support listing or popularity contests? Why not just add the features and not define a purpose behind them? Just let people use them as they want.

At the very least, so there is something very minimally preventing either spammy posts or flaming posts.

I'll use myself as an example again because I know I'm not the most popular guy here, but I personally would not care who or how many people dislike any post I make, it would be fairly obvious to me who does it out of smite vs who might just dislike it, and it might also help me connect the dots in finding out who might be an alt or something. But those unvoiced opinions wouldn't bother me nearly as much as the ones who verbally respond to try and prove their own points.

The Like button on its own is alright, but even facebook turned their single Like button into Reactions, which includes Angry, which nobody really cares about when they see somebody use it on their facebook posts.
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14-Feb-2018 21:21:30

Spearmint30
Apr Member 2012

Spearmint30

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Whatusaytome said :
But those unvoiced opinions wouldn't bother me nearly as much as the ones who verbally respond to try and prove their own points.
As long as an unvoiced negative opinion in the form of a dislike has no bearing on the default display of our posts or standing within a thread, I'm right there with you. I personally don't care either whether or not others agree or disagree with my posts because I don't expect every user to think like me.

I'm definitely going to encounter users who disagree with me and that's fine. I'm happy for them to explain their point of view to me and I also understand that just because we're discussing our differing points of view does not mean that either one of us has to change our opinions. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree and move on.

My opinions on a dislike button are based on the typical mechanics that come with such a feature, whether it's a scoring system in our profiles or a back-end system to adjust the sort order and/or default display of opinions based on the votes. These mechanics open the door to popularity contents, with popular users posts kept "hot" or "trending" while users with less popular thoughts and opinions are buried or hidden by default.

I suppose the same could happen with a like system alone, but I feel it would be less blatant.
Spearmint30

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14-Feb-2018 22:20:18

Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

Posts: 5,767 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Spearmint30 said :

My opinions on a dislike button are based on the typical mechanics that come with such a feature, whether it's a scoring system in our profiles or a back-end system to adjust the sort order and/or default display of opinions based on the votes. These mechanics open the door to popularity contents, with popular users posts kept "hot" or "trending" while users with less popular thoughts and opinions are buried or hidden by default.

I suppose the same could happen with a like system alone, but I feel it would be less blatant.
But what if there was no hidden agenda to the buttons? No scoring system in our profiles or on threads to make us out to be better than anybody, just the options for people to use the buttons if they want, and to see the names of people who hit the buttons on any post.

If people just have to claim its a popularity contest, I guess let them? I wont use it that way myself, and I will hope there's nothing like "trending" or "popular posts" coming with the update.
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15-Feb-2018 15:30:54

Spearmint30
Apr Member 2012

Spearmint30

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Whatusaytome said :
But what if there was no hidden agenda to the buttons? No scoring system in our profiles or on threads to make us out to be better than anybody, just the options for people to use the buttons if they want, and to see the names of people who hit the buttons on any post.

If people just have to claim its a popularity contest, I guess let them? I wont use it that way myself, and I will hope there's nothing like "trending" or "popular posts" coming with the update.
If there's no public analytic displayed in profiles for number of likes and dislikes for each user, but instead a like/dislike counter on a thread or post simply x likes and y dislikes without usernames, then it could maybe work.

The more I think about this, the more I'm on the fence about whether we really need it. :P
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15-Feb-2018 19:00:42

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Waste of development time IMO since up/down vote system is far from useful. It doesn't serve any discussion purpose and is mostly abused by certain groups of users to manipulate the "popularity" of their posts.

The fact that many of the biggest sites like FB are staying away from it, and others like Reddit that still use it have to "beg" their users not to downvote posts show you that they don't even feel comfortable with that kind of system among themselves.

Anyway, perhaps there are other priorities ahead of this initiative, despite of its "popularity". :)

15-Feb-2018 19:57:01 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2018 20:04:31 by Dilbert2001

Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

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I've seen plenty worse wastes of Dev time in the past few years. Dozens-hundreds of minor things that we could've gone without and would never have noticed. This, whether people use it or not, is a commonly requested thing, at least in the past year and a half I've been here it has appeared numerous times.

If you cannot let go of the "popularity contest abuse" I guess that's on you. It isn't "needed" but it is wanted by plenty.
This might simply just let people have an opinion on your posts without wasting post space.
This is not the same thing as popularity contesting.

If people have to abuse logging on multiple accounts to try and make your post appear less popular, what does that matter? The post is what matters, not the number of votes. And if it alters some peoples posting habits to be more people-friendly, what harm is there in that?

Funny how you mentioned Facebook staying away from it when I literally just said "They changed from just a like button, to Reactions. Which includes Angry." and also, they did have a downloadable Dislike button that was fully functional and appeared for anybody who had it downloaded. I had it at one point.
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15-Feb-2018 20:28:11

Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

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Whatusaytome said :
The post is what matters, not the number of votes.


Hold that thought: why do people want this to begin with?

Whatusaytome said :
And if it alters some peoples posting habits to be more people-friendly, what harm is there in that?


What is more "people-friendly"? Feeling forced to share the popular opinion to avoid getting down-voted? Doesn't sound very friendly to me. A lot like censorship and less freedom to express yourself, actually. O_o

Spearmint30 said :
The more I think about this, the more I'm on the fence about whether we really need it. :P


The more I read, the likelihood of me wanting even half of this drops. It just makes confirmation of Reddit's problems stronger in my opinion.
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15-Feb-2018 21:55:23 - Last edited on 15-Feb-2018 22:01:15 by Miles Prower

Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

Posts: 5,767 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Miles Prower said :
Whatusaytome said :
The post is what matters, not the number of votes.


Hold that thought: why do people want this to begin with?

Whatusaytome said :
And if it alters some peoples posting habits to be more people-friendly, what harm is there in that?


What is more "people-friendly"? Feeling forced to share the popular opinion to avoid getting down-voted? Doesn't sound very friendly to me. A lot like censorship and less freedom to express yourself, actually. O_o
Well for the first part, I've explained how i would use it, but if you want to know why other people would want it, search the forums for any of the different threads for it and ask them all. I see it as an opinion without words and that seems useful to me, regardless if people try to abuse it with alts.

second part, it isn't really censoring anything. people will still post how they do, if that's what they choose to do. If they are like you, or Dilbert, and think the votes would matter more than the posts, and you change your post to not get 'disliked' by as many people, whats wrong with that? I expect to get a heck of a lot of dislikes on my posts, and I don't plan on changing my posts to adjust for it. you can do the same, or not... Up to you.
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15-Feb-2018 22:11:07

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Whatusaytome said :
I've seen plenty worse wastes of Dev time in the past few years. Dozens-hundreds of minor things that we could've gone without and would never have noticed. This, whether people use it or not, is a commonly requested thing, at least in the past year and a half I've been here it has appeared numerous times.

If you cannot let go of the "popularity contest abuse" I guess that's on you. It isn't "needed" but it is wanted by plenty.
This might simply just let people have an opinion on your posts without wasting post space.
This is not the same thing as popularity contesting.

If people have to abuse logging on multiple accounts to try and make your post appear less popular, what does that matter? The post is what matters, not the number of votes. And if it alters some peoples posting habits to be more people-friendly, what harm is there in that?

Funny how you mentioned Facebook staying away from it when I literally just said "They changed from just a like button, to Reactions. Which includes Angry." and also, they did have a downloadable Dislike button that was fully functional and appeared for anybody who had it downloaded. I had it at one point.


FB Reactions don't show the equivalence of approval, support and such. They are basically just emoticons, something that FB prefers their users to use to express their emotions instead of showing support or disapproval of a post.

We already have emoticons in this forums but look around and see how many users are actually using them? I see almost none. If users don't even bother to use emoticons, LIKES don't really matter much. No need to waste time on such a feature.

15-Feb-2018 22:46:20

Whatusaytome
Apr Member 2020

Whatusaytome

Posts: 5,767 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And there are quite a good number of suggestions in this very forum for More Emoticons, Emojis, Forum updates, to make this place more fun and/or better than this outdated stuff.

It wouldn't be a waste to have a Forum overhaul doing all of these updates at once, but that would take too much time and probably come with more flaws to be patched, or they can just do some of these as Ninja Fix type updates, quick simple patches/updates to stuff.

Jagex wastes/uses so much dev time on other things that could be used in Forum updates.

Btw, I see plenty of emoticon use, despite there only being the 10, which are way too basic to match every feeling we have. And Facebook Reactions are a simple nonverbal way to display how that post makes you feel, same thing this is suggesting, but this is much simpler.
Your opinions here can affect us all. Please post for the better

Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules , Trade Lock Scammers

15-Feb-2018 23:24:58

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