RuneScape Forum Archive | Frequency of FMR responses

Stoat King

Posts: 5,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

CM Nick said :
Thus, it stands to reason that any and ALL of our actions are overseen and audited by Jagex themselves - meaning that if there were ever questionable actions taken by the LMod team, Jagex would obviously step in and reverse those or deal with the situation accordingly - and there have indeed been times where LMod actions have been reversed. The circular logic and the sanctimonious tone make this hilarious.
ALL of your actions are overseen? Jagex would 'obviously' step in?
Lol - whatever you say.
I guess your post must have been fact-checked by a JMod so thats that then.

03-Jun-2020 17:06:35 - Last edited on 03-Jun-2020 17:06:47 by Stoat King

Aeroxmaster

Posts: 8,010 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hi Nick. First of all, I'd like to apologise if you feel that I was attempting to make a personal attack on LMods. This was not my intention and I was truly intending on providing constructive, non-rude feedback. I've re-read my post and whilst I can see how a user could potentially take it personally, I think it's important to read it objectively and take it for what its intentions are: feedback for positive change.

For the record, I think the vast majority of actions taken probably are correct by LMods and FMods. What I'm saying is that the spirit behind the current rules may not be being taken into account fully on all occasions. I've raised this in a separate thread now, so I will not continue much further on that point specifically within this thread.

The topic of this thread still mainly refers to FMR response frequency , as opposed to when the next FMR review will take place. I think that encompasses and entitles a wide range of related friendly discussion, including how we can improve the process going forward to make things easier for both Jagex, LMods, FMods and normal players altogether. Although Jagex may have said "we will not consider allowing LMods to run a thread on their own in a similar way to FH", I don't necessarily feel that that means no discussion for potentials for this in the future should be had. I think it's fine to hold discussions which include that discussion point too, or how to potentially improve and refine that idea to then make it more acceptable for Jagex and the community as a whole. This was what I was getting at, in combination with ensuring that all reports are reviewed within the spirit of attempting to allow for civilised discussions where possible. I hope this makes sense?

I'd appreciate anyone and everyone's further comments on this thread. It may be that the LMod idea will never be supported, which is fine too. But I still feel that we should be allowed to discuss that too and any other ideas, no?

03-Jun-2020 17:10:43

Aeroxmaster

Posts: 8,010 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Stoat King said :
I guess your post must have been fact-checked by a JMod so thats that then.

I think it's good we have fact checking in place too

Only once this is reduced to a minimum should there be possibility for a possible LMod + JMod collaboration in managing FMR, or lone LMod management (subject to JMod review and audits).

03-Jun-2020 17:19:06

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Not much more to add all I'd post would be a response to Nick but that would be off topic

Hopefully Kari can get it down to weekly reviews as there can't be that many reports made a week

03-Jun-2020 18:29:20

Maynne

Forum Moderator Posts: 52,416 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Historically speaking, the existence of purple mods here in RSOF was planned as a temporary measure. All 3rd party contractors signed-up by Jagex to help their staff regulate RSOF were originally expected to receive their respective Jmod accounts within a few weeks after the reintroduction of the purple mods.

For a reasons unknown publicly, that issuance of gold accounts for contractors has not yet happened many many months after- we still don't know if that will still push through. The speed of FMR response is a concern of everyone, nobody wants delays.

From my point of view, if FMR reports can be processed within the next 24-hours, the better overall. This can be easily achieved by Lmods with golden uniforms here in RSOF.

03-Jun-2020 18:41:03

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Stoat King said :
CM Nick said :
Thus, it stands to reason that any and ALL of our actions are overseen and audited by Jagex themselves - meaning that if there were ever questionable actions taken by the LMod team, Jagex would obviously step in and reverse those or deal with the situation accordingly - and there have indeed been times where LMod actions have been reversed. The circular logic and the sanctimonious tone make this hilarious.
ALL of your actions are overseen? Jagex would 'obviously' step in?
Lol - whatever you say.
I guess your post must have been fact-checked by a JMod so thats that then.

I'm not sure what's circular or sanctimonious about this?

I was speaking quite literally here... at the end of our shift, we send off a handover email to Jagex detailing absolutely every single action taken by us on the forums, and the justification for doing so, and all of those actions are reviewed by Jagex on a daily basis.

Case in point, I had originally locked this thread yesterday, but it was decided by Jagex that it was a better avenue for discussion to leave this thread open as opposed to starting a new one, hence - as I said in a previous post - our decision on the matter was reversed by Jagex. I don't know how much more clearly I could demonstrate that we're held to a particular standard by Jagex.

Us LMods have been 100% transparent about our duties, up front about what we do, and open to any questions about it.

I'm perfectly fine with having my moderation decisions disagreed with and overturned - that's the reality of moderating in a very passionate and tight-knit community, and also being overseen by JMods - sometimes what we feel is right might not be the right choice in Jagex's eyes, and the decision will be tweaked accordingly, but to imply that somehow we are moderating by our own agendas when absolutely everything we do here is reviewed by Jagex is just patently false. Community Manager for Jagex

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03-Jun-2020 19:32:19 - Last edited on 03-Jun-2020 20:06:30 by CM Nick

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Aeroxmaster said :
Hi Nick. First of all, I'd like to apologise if you feel that I was attempting to make a personal attack on LMods. This was not my intention and I was truly intending on providing constructive, non-rude feedback. I've re-read my post and whilst I can see how a user could potentially take it personally, I think it's important to read it objectively and take it for what its intentions are: feedback for positive change.

[...]

For the record, I think the vast majority of actions taken probably are correct by LMods and FMods. What I'm saying is that the spirit behind the current rules may not be being taken into account fully on all occasions. I've raised this in a separate thread now, so I will not continue much further on that point specifically within this thread.

[...]

The topic of this thread still mainly refers to FMR response frequency , as opposed to when the next FMR review will take place. I think that encompasses and entitles a wide range of related friendly discussion, including how we can improve the process going forward to make things easier for both Jagex, LMods, FMods and normal players altogether.

No apology necessary! I'm sorry if my reply came off a little brusque as well

While the LMod FMR idea HAS been shot down in the past, you're right that there's no reason it can't be further discussed, tweaked, etc.

I also understand what you mean regarding the spirit behind moderation and how it can sometimes feel like it's not being honoured or things are perhaps being moderated too tightly, and I also very much agree that constructive discussion regarding FMR frequency, and how that could possible be structured differently, changed or improved in the future, is a good dialogue to open, and I do think that discussion regarding that is inherently helpful when it's done in a constructive way that's pushing for positive changes, which is what it seems to me like you want to do going forward. Community Manager for Jagex

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03-Jun-2020 19:41:11

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Sorry for the long wall of text, but to conclude, we very much want to open a dialogue about what can be improved here on the RSOF and how we can help to achieve that, and have been involved with the RSOF Community, the FMod Team and Jagex to spearhead some initiatives this year such as the new Phishing Report Centre thread, taking over moderating duties for the HLF forums and creating a Help Center in that forum, the restructuring and remaking of many old out-of-date sticky threads that may no longer apply to the current state of the forums (such as the Looking for Clan Founders thread), and many other little things to help bring the RSOF a little more up to date and more accurately reflect the state of the community as it stands now, and we are always open to your constructive ideas, opinions, and concerns about how we can more accurately serve the community in this way

Community Manager for Jagex

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03-Jun-2020 19:46:39 - Last edited on 03-Jun-2020 19:48:33 by CM Nick

Maynne

Forum Moderator Posts: 52,416 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I consider Lmods as Jmods, for the very reason they are designated to wear the golden uniform to begin with albeit "delayed". Yup inside double quotation marks.

Lmods are professionals through and through, they are hired to perform a job. And compared to Jagex staff, they are more visible and responsive to forumers here in RSOF. I deny in strongest terms any accusation that they have a hidden agenda, their goal is to perform the job they are paid to do.

They act professionally, as I observed.

03-Jun-2020 19:47:40

Stoat King

Posts: 5,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Louiellen - that you are willing to cover the back of the LMods is creditable, but pointless.
They were hired to perform one job.
One job which they cannot do, because Jagex are unable to enable them to do it.
Does anyone really think Jagex will renew the contract ad infinitum?
Its costing them cash for a downgrade.
Their existence does nothing but dilute the quality of moderation.
They are new and don't know the people, the history, the ethos.
As you know, I am no great fan of yours, but I do respect you, as I do all of the FMods.
You have certainly put in the time.
Why should I give a toss what a paid Jagex shill with no relevant experience thinks?
Whilst I don't always like it, you FMods are both more professional and more respected.
Your babysitting them is a waste of your time. It is a problem that will solve itself.

Can you imagine the meeting where this was proposed?
"Lets add meaningless layers of support and have each one carefully oversee every action of the layer beneath. But lets make sure none of those layers add any value.
And lets pay for the privilege too."
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at that meeting.
Of course not.
The LMods were hired to kick the can so far down the road that the JMods would never see it again. That and that alone. And they cant.

As things stand, they still have to deal with FMR and now have to oversee the LMods to boot.
They are paying cash for something that has increased their support burden whilst simultaneously reducing the quality of moderation.

They will be nothing but a bad memory soon enough, like the merger of Rants and Compliments.

05-Jun-2020 16:05:19

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Frequency of FMR responses