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Frequency of FMR responses

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Spearmint30
Apr Member 2012

Spearmint30

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Aeroxmaster said :
I'm sure there will be some people who will take issue with LMod decisions. They will either need to be made final for the time being Well, for all intents and purposes, LMods are a part of the community management team for Jagex, so their word in this process would already be final.

I mean, I've seen people complain about LMod actions as well and those individuals have been directed to FMR, but once LMods are able to review and action FMR, I think it stands to reason that their word will be regarded as just as final as any Mod Whoeversoposts.

Edit: Didn't like that I started both paragraphs off the same way.
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Spearmint30
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01-Jun-2020 01:04:09 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2020 01:06:19 by Spearmint30

gozzzz

gozzzz

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CM Nick said :
Aeroxmaster said :
I don't see why the LMods cant just remake that thread and autohide posts so that only they and JMods can see em. Just do some small code tweaks. They're on these forums a tonne of time and yet they don't do that thread?

Man.

The forums currently don't have a way for us LMods to do something like this, as the autohidden posts can only be seen by JMods.

The closest alternative would be a Forum Help style thread where we manually hide posts, and there has been a resounding "I don't like that idea" to that, as it limits the incredibly important anonymity factor. The FH thread is already constantly abused because we can't be anonymous. I agree that the FMR thread shouldn't have this flaw.

01-Jun-2020 03:03:53

Aeroxmaster

Aeroxmaster

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I wouldn’t worry about the above post, unless posters can objectively justify why it would be an issue in relation to FMods. FMods have guidelines they must follow anyway so there are restrictions that can be put in place to prevent abuse, such as suggestions I made previously.

Any “victimisation” that may arise afterwards can be dealt with and addressed separately.

If this isn’t done soon enough, I’ll create a new thread suggesting specifically that. The few that may be “afraid of abuse” after regularly using such a thread should not dictate to the many that occasionally use the thread as to whether or not it should exist. FMR shouldn’t even be a thread that’s routinely used by specific individuals anyway.

And you might have a point Spearmint. I guess Jagex should still be doing their own internal audits of all staff members anyway.

01-Jun-2020 10:40:15

Stoat King

Stoat King

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Aeroxmaster said :
I believe there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for the length of time it's taken Jagex to create these tools or JMod accounts or whatever it is needed for the LMods. There is zero excuse, as this has been going on for years now.

Time to put the foot down:

Whilst I agree, the way software development works is not a mystery.
Given how many years we have waited for this, I feel it is safe to conclude that either Jagex are not competent to implement this or they just don't care. Possibly both.
I think the chance that this is dealt with via a software solution, regardless of whether you put your foot down, is not vanishingly remote - its zero.
This isn't on anyone's list and hasn't been for a very long time.

01-Jun-2020 12:55:30

Wilf
Jul Member 2019

Wilf

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Spearmint30 said :
Aeroxmaster said :
I'm sure there will be some people who will take issue with LMod decisions. They will either need to be made final for the time being Well, for all intents and purposes, LMods are a part of the community management team for Jagex, so their word in this process would already be final.

I mean, I've seen people complain about LMod actions as well and those individuals have been directed to FMR, but once LMods are able to review and action FMR, I think it stands to reason that their word will be regarded as just as final as any Mod Whoeversoposts.

Edit: Didn't like that I started both paragraphs off the same way.


Which is partly why I'm not too fussed if they never do reviews it is too late in the day as I believe they (or rather Nick as Arbor is new) have become assimilated to the FMOD way of moderating.

I've also seen a big discrepancy in the moderating of threads in this section depending on the topic: locking some threads with the resason being jmods have responded while leaving many many more that have had jmod replies open. To me this means I can't really trust them to be unbiased. The CM Jmods however are as far as I'm concerned not here enough to have a similar level of bias.


I've taken umbridge with jmod decisions in the past because they are quite clearly wrong no matter which way you look at it, and sometimes if the mod reading it felt it merited another review has passed it on to whoever was the head of CM. I have to say I've no idea who that is now.

01-Jun-2020 18:28:10 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2020 18:53:48 by Wilf

Wilf
Jul Member 2019

Wilf

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As to the idea of a public thread I've suggested it before and think for those who want a quicker response and are not fussed about the post being public it is a good idea.

The other thread can be left for those who wish to have the contents hidden or want a jmod response the caveat being it will take longer.

Basically the only thing unseen is the content of the post and why is it critical that the reason a user disagrees with the mods opinion is hidden from view?

The name of the person posting is addressed in the response unless anonymity is requested not hard to check profiles.

01-Jun-2020 18:32:14 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2020 18:52:37 by Wilf

Aeroxmaster

Aeroxmaster

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On the point of LMod bias - I have thought about that too tbh, ngl. I've seen some questionable actions on their part, acting out of context of the way the forum rules have been recreated on various occasions; particularly out of context with the spirit behind their last implementation.

We might see FMods slip up from time to time - fine. However, LMods are supposed to be an extension of Jagex. The way they moderate should not simply be "from having picked up the habits of FMods".

The present forum rules were created to be flexible, and warrant less totalitarian heavy handedness in moderation on the forums, refraining from simply closing threads for borderline reasons etc etc.

They should check the history of the forums, rule changes etc and become accustomed to the spirit behind Jagex's implementation. Once that is done, then they should take over FMR and review actions from a non biased perspective. In a way, that could mean that any LMods that are involved in FMR should not be the types of mods that are necessarily routinely involved in day to day moderation.

This is the type of practice that occurs in the real world tbh to help eliminate bias.

Edit: Not sure if I'd agree with allowing a second JMod thread to remain upon, as it could simply be an avenue for sending in frivolous reports simply because a user does not like the decision an LMod came to, rather than having an actual genuine reason to submit a report. As such it could cause issues in this manner. But open to discussion on this though.

01-Jun-2020 19:13:04 - Last edited on 01-Jun-2020 19:15:52 by Aeroxmaster

CM Nick

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aeroxmaster said :


When was this "poll" conducted?

I think it may be better to just do what you've suggested now. What people can do is quote FMod responses and in the meantime, FMods are not allowed to edit any posts that have been made for moderation reasons.


To answer this, this was gleaned from several past threads regarding this subject where the general consensus was that people did not want an FMR that wasn't anonymous. There was no formal "poll" for this idea.

Furthermore, this very idea has been suggested to Jagex several times now - not only by the community, but the LMod team as well - and this was not a course of action they have chosen to consider as either a long or short-term idea for FMR.

I understand that sometimes it can be frustrating to wait for FMR to be reviewed, but as it stands at the moment as LMods, our hands are tied.

I agree that it would be a lot easier if the intended course of action (us LMods taking over review duties with JMod accounts) were possible right now, but as we know, due to technical limitations and issues on Jagex's end, that's not something that can be done right now.

As for whether or not our "questionable actions," or "bias," would get in the way, as Spearmint as pointed out, we're hired by Jagex to be an extension of the Community Mangement team on the forums, and were intended to have full-fledged JMod accounts to be able to do things such as review FMR.

Thus, it stands to reason that any and ALL of our actions are overseen and audited by Jagex themselves - meaning that if there were ever questionable actions taken by the LMod team, Jagex would obviously step in and reverse those or deal with the situation accordingly - and there have indeed been times where LMod actions have been reversed.

It seems disingenuous to imply we're out here moderating with our own agendas. We're moderating within the guidelines provided to us by Jagex, and audited and reviewed as such. Community Manager for Jagex

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