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Suggested Forum rule changes

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Abby Taylor
Nov Member 2019

Abby Taylor

Posts: 2,214 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hello, I want to make a suggestion about how the Official Runescape Forums are moderated, because I think the current rules are causing some issues that make the experience worse for many users, and possibly contribute to lack of engagement.

Disclaimer: I will be discussing trolling, and online trolling behaviors, but I won't be naming any specific users, or specific threads. This thread is for suggestions, not calling people out.


1. The status of these forums seems to be, overly moderated, and overly strict. Particularly in regards to off-topic posts, "flaming", and Naming and Shaming.

2. This overly strict environment has led to abuse by players who provoke others with annoying behavior, and then use moderators against innocent users who called out annoying said behavior.

3. Rules against baiting and provoking players are not being enforced. In this sense the moderators are not strict enough.

The Solution

Relax rules against off topic posting.

Currently a single post that is even slightly tangential is enough to warrant a warning, and having your whole post hidden. I think that is to far.

Allow Pointing out disruptive behavior.

Informing another user that someone is trolling should also not be considered flaming. Doing so often results in a warning and hidden post. This is frustrating because it prevents you from helping someone avoid interacting with trolls.

Allow for banter and heated debate

I think that allowing some level of banter or light name calling would actually be beneficial.
So many posts full of paragraphs of important, well thought argumentation, get removed entirely because they might have said "Idiotic" or called another user "Dumb"
Is that nice to say? No, but I think hiding entire posts over very minor insults is quite harmful to dialogue overall.
200m Woodcutting: 08/08/2021

Completionist: 09/10/2021

07-Sep-2023 03:17:04 - Last edited on 07-Sep-2023 17:26:22 by Abby Taylor

Abby Taylor
Nov Member 2019

Abby Taylor

Posts: 2,214 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't think any of my proposed rule changes would lead to more harassment or spamming.

Spam is different from one or two off-topic posts. Most people understand that. Getting punished for going on a semi-related tangent just makes you feel like you're in school and being told what you can and can't say, it hurts discussion in the long term.

Also calling somebody stupid once or twice in the heat of the moment is a far cry from harassment.

Harassment is repeated, unwanted interaction and attacks. Which you could reduce massively without extra moderation simply by allowing forum users to BLOCK someone.

Blocking other users is a staple of pretty much any online community / Social Media.

In fact, The Main Runescape website has links to 4 major sites:
Reddit
Facebook
Twitter
Youtube

ALL of which have a block function, and Runescape itself has an INGAME block function.
It's sorely missed here on the forums..
200m Woodcutting: 08/08/2021

Completionist: 09/10/2021

07-Sep-2023 03:28:44 - Last edited on 07-Sep-2023 03:32:24 by Abby Taylor

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,207 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Abby Taylor said :
1. The status of these forums seems to be, overly moderated, and overly strict. Particularly in regards to off-topic posts, and "flaming"


Which Forums are these The RuneScape forums are so relaxed today people can get away with almost anything and often do.

At times if someone has a post or 2 reported to Forum Help thread the F-Mod often leaves the posts on the thread. This is because at times it's often better to leave some posts then remove them. F-Mods removing posts often cause more serious issues hence the posts being left.

As for changing the rules I can't see it happening. After all we have tiny rules all ready. So very little to change.

Allow Pointing out disruptive behavior.


That won't change as it falls under Naming and Shaming. If you suspect someone is trolling then use Forum Help thread and let the F-Mods deal with it. If the report is deemed worthy of a post removal it will be removed. If not it will be left. Chances are these days all reports on Forum Help are checked and the offending post or posts are often left.

Allow for banter and heated debate


This happens all ready. I don't see a need to change something thats working well within the Forums. After all if someone does not like something or someone who has posted they can Ignore it and move on. ;)

I do agree with you the Forums NEED a Block option. Been asked for for years. No sign of it being added. :)

Also calling somebody stupid once or twice in the heat of the moment is a far cry from harassment.


You said that and I agree with you now and then it needs to be said. But done in a way not to cause offense or hurt feelings. It could fall under Flaming and be reported and again F-Mods duty to deal with it in a way to keep everyone happy. It's done within Jagex Guidelines on a case by case basis.

These are my own thoughts and not Jagex.
Comprehensive Account Security
Live long and Prosper...... :P

07-Sep-2023 10:25:20 - Last edited on 07-Sep-2023 10:27:38 by Tuffty

Abby Taylor
Nov Member 2019

Abby Taylor

Posts: 2,214 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Tufty

Not offense but It feels like your analysis of the forums is skewed or inaccurate. F-mods remove a lot of posts and issue a lot of warnings for extremely minor things.

"The RuneScape forums are so relaxed today people can get away with almost anything and often do."
"we have tiny rules all ready"


This just isn't the case from my observation, unless you are meaning to say trolls and baiters are the ones who get away with anything, then you would be correct.

Telling a user that someone else is a troll is always punished as "naming and shaming" allowing the troll to go on and be annoying.

"After all if someone does not like something or someone who has posted they can Ignore it and move on."

If you know much about human psychology, then you know this is not a solution. It SEEMS like good advice to someone who is naïve or optimistic to a toxic degree.


"
That won't change as it falls under Naming and Shaming
. If you suspect someone is trolling then use Forum Help thread and let the F-Mods deal with it. If the report is deemed worthy of a post removal it will be removed. If not it will be left. Chances are these days all reports on Forum Help are checked and
the offending post or posts are often left.
"


There is the problem. Reporting a troll to forum help is often fruitless, but calling out the troll results in you being removed for naming and shaming.
This OVERLY strict rule against naming and shaming actually benefits trolls more than it benefits the users, you see what I'm saying right?

Naming and Shaming should be against the rules if you're calling out innocent users or harassing people.
But it shouldn't be applied to someone who is simply pointing out that a baiter is being a troll.
200m Woodcutting: 08/08/2021

Completionist: 09/10/2021

07-Sep-2023 17:22:47 - Last edited on 07-Sep-2023 17:24:36 by Abby Taylor

Abby Taylor
Nov Member 2019

Abby Taylor

Posts: 2,214 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I also wanted to say that there isn't really any way to call someone stupid without hurting their feelings or offending them. That's just how the world is.

Sometimes people will hurt your feelings, and If we can't block people then Jagex should be fine with it.
200m Woodcutting: 08/08/2021

Completionist: 09/10/2021

08-Sep-2023 01:33:37

SushiCombo
Jan Member 2018

SushiCombo

Posts: 6,000 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Unfortunately, with the low forum count here, enforcing rules is not typically a high priority, if they were to be strict again, we'd literally have nobody posting here lol. This makes a bit of sense why they've been more lax on letting people go a little extra in their posts.

08-Sep-2023 03:33:30

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,207 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
No offense taken apart from my Name. People keep leaving off the second F lol.

I get where you are coming from. I really do and totally understand the need to call out a Troll now and then. You must understand if you call out a troll and they fight back and they often do then the whole thread is a mess. By the time it's reported you could lose half the thread by removing trolling naming and shaming comments.

The F-Mods know the main trolls honest we do and see them daily. At times when they are reported they have posts removed and a warning issued to get back on topic etc. It does happen.

The best way to deal with trolls though is by ignoring when they post and not reply back to them. After all no one wants a thread full of Green posts saying troll post remove back to topic. It messes up a great thread. If the trolling is serious then action gets taken and the troll wins a free vacation for a day or 3. Then that gives the thread a chance of getting back on it's feet.

As for calling someone stupid without using the word stupid is easy. It's in the wording and context. Not saying it should be done but it can be done.

The Naming and Shaming rule has been here for such a long time and I can honestly say hand on heart I can't see it changing. It's just 1 of them rules thats a must for the forums.

I still say the rule set are so small these days you can say what you want. I can't see many people take offense at anything posted. If they do they can use Forum Help thread.
Comprehensive Account Security
Live long and Prosper...... :P

08-Sep-2023 11:20:27 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2023 11:21:12 by Tuffty

2_Tron

2_Tron

Posts: 23,025 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
In the past I had a thread that was trashed by a single person with 75 posts all over the place and nothing was done ... WHY ... because tha JMod in question (where I reported to) didn't saw a problem at all.

Point is ... the definition of a troll is determined by moderators moderating threads and you can't change any of that.

'
Do not think that a dictionary will help
' ... if a moderator does find you an a...e they treat you like one.

08-Sep-2023 11:34:00

Abby Taylor
Nov Member 2019

Abby Taylor

Posts: 2,214 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Miu said :
I agree that being able to call a troll a troll, in order to keep a thread from veering off-topic, should be allowed. Especially when mods don't action said trolls.

However, the other points in your thread contradict themselves. The forums are not very strict and are the least strict they've ever been.


I just massively disagree here. I think that the rules are not strict when it concerns trolls. but they are overly strict against innocent users or frustrated users.

I see a lot of posts hidden and warnings given for players simply voicing concerns or frustrations.
200m Woodcutting: 08/08/2021

Completionist: 09/10/2021

08-Sep-2023 19:02:36

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