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Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,160 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
mr togue said :


the diffuculty is to identfing who is doing this
but after all these years,people who have experience like tuffy should be able to spot the pattern

mr togue said :
the people who report others are well rehearsed and knowing a new poster is not educated on the finer points of public debating will use that to their advantage

it is a struggle for me to have this chat with out using specific examples but that would most defiantly break the no name and shame rule, so please extract my meaning so i do not violate them myself

I do get where you are coming from here and Yes I totally agree with you with the pattern's. Yes we can see these happening on Forum Help and Yes we know it goes on and Yes as Nick has said we do take action against people who misues the Forum Help thread.

Just like to dispell a myth here about naming and shaming.

The rules are clear yes that you can't name and shame. We all get that.

You can name people though with in the forums. It's been done for years. Just keep it nice and no issues would arrise. As long as you are not saying " Randome name of someone " is being a total jerk ban them. That would fall under naming and shaming. If you said " Randome name of someone " is a great player and doing an awesome job thats not naming and shaming and can be done within the main forums. It's all to do with context. If kept nice it's within the rules. Why though you would want to make a thread about someone is another matter. :P Comprehensive Account Security
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04-Oct-2021 12:21:08 - Last edited on 04-Oct-2021 12:31:31 by Tuffty

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,160 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
mr togue said :


@tuffy
i absolutely agree with you when you said "if We had no Forum Help thread the forums would be pure anarchy " i refer back to my sentence about " if its a legit issue then fix it "

but i have seen and had it done to me personally where a fmod gets a complaint and with out reading thru the thread decided to blanket hide the reported players comments

when it happened to me i had not violated any rule and later on a jmod had to come back in and unhide my post but by then the thread had lost interest and basically the action of the fmod killed the thread because of some one falsely reporting a issue

as you are well aware of through out the years, fmods have made these types of mistakes and to error is human but the consequences of those errors is it empowered people to utilize the reporting threads to shut down the entire thread or the thoughts of a single player from being enjoyed by many others on the forums,

the reporter has taken advantage of the system because the fmods do not have time to read or digest ever part of the thread in question,
the fmods have just gotten complacent with and relied on the knowledge of the same people over and over again tattling on others to just assumed

Just on this you are wrong. F-Mods read reports. If the report gives enough info as per the requirements then that really does help the F-Mod out. If very little detail is left in a report then it's down to the F-Mod to work out the issue. You are right in a way that F-Mods don't read a whole thread. They read whats been reported and use Guidelines to deal with it. So better the report the quicker action is taken in hiding or locking any thread issues.

We have a Review thread so the Community can use it incase they feel a F-Mod is in error. It works when it's used right. Yes it's slow right now but it will get better really soon. So use Review if you need too F-Mods can't see the report at all. Comprehensive Account Security
What do snowmen have for breakfast? Snowflakes! :P

04-Oct-2021 12:31:18

mr togue
Sep Member 2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
as i have stated the moment a persons post is hid it reduced the passion .. the flow of... the interest in any thread .it does not matter that it gets over turned in the fmod review thread, it kills it IMO instantly, to see it happen based on false reporting is sad i have participated in many threads that was fun and interesting and exciting to be part of when all of a sudden either a false report or a baited comment has been hidden. for the purpose of this conversation i will use the term "helpful person" in a general usage i am not singling out any group or individuals that play a role which resembles the term "helpful person"

as you might know thru the years of experience you have seen its very easy to bait some one who is not as experienced in open public debates , and the "helpful people " are very well versed into the practice

its those moments i get upset about, then i see comments made in the forum help forums, that do not get hidden by the fmods thanking the "helpful person" who set up the guy he/she reported on, just sticks in my gut like bad gas,

i hope you understand why my signature is what it is, and in time i am sure i will change it
and i do know some of the "helpful people" are very helpful and are a vital part of the forum community

but there are bad apples among them , they are repeat offenders and i feel there should be a public rule stated on what will happen to those who repeatly do this to people,

i have enjoyed general forum over the years , i have been a victim of being dragged down the baited road and over the years i can now see it coming my way,
but in these times with the least amount of people interacting with the forums this behavor of driving people away can not continue and some thing must be done to prevent any one from feeling they are not wanted on the boards,

04-Oct-2021 16:48:06

mr togue
Sep Member 2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
my suggestion / advice to the solution is...

1) to instantly hide all reports or complaints in the forum help threads this includes the name of the last poster

to me it does not matter how it gets done. perhaps if a fmod mod can only set up the thread for instant hide is if they make the thread then do that,, i get that jmods would like that control but as a jmod they have full access to any and all threads so it should not matter if a fmod creates a thread

but from a personal view ( i am working on fixing this in me ) it has caused me to get a attitude towards the people i suspect are baiting people for the sole purpose to be able to report on them, its bad on my part but its human i don't like it that i do that and i hope i can over come it

2) if a person is caught doing it even once,,, they should be banned from making a report for a set amount of time ( 1st offense perhaps a week, 2nd offense a month, 3rd permeant ban or some thing to the effect to make is as harsh as possible )
its a serious offense in my eyes and therefore it should be a serious punishment

it was not fair to the person who was baited so to me it should not be fair to one who makes false reports,, i say absolutely report for legit reasons but if you don't then there should be a severe punishment

3) educate every one any chance you can !!!--->( jmods, fmods,players ) on why it is so wrong to do this to people

communication is the key to all success stories,, this is no different

ps.. @ tuffy on a personnel note i feel this thread has been one of our more interesting interactions

04-Oct-2021 17:26:56 - Last edited on 04-Oct-2021 17:46:26 by mr togue

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05-Oct-2021 08:32:59

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,160 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Mr Togue

As far as your sig goes it's fine. No issues with it anywhere. ;)

Your suggestions for a fix.

1. Sadly can't be done. Auto hide will hide any reports from F-Mods viewing them. So no can do sorry.

2. Actions are taken aganst people who miss-use the Forum Help thread. I know for a fact people get mutes for it if they ignore Warnings. They have to have warnings though. It's not done deal after 1 report unless it's so outside of the rules and offensive.

3. When someone makes a report to the Forum Help thread and it's not complying with post 1 then they often do get educated and asked to follow the template. It does help and is often used to ask for a better report.

An example would be someone just posts a Quick Find Code and nothing else. 9/10 times a F-Mod will spot the issue and deal with it but sometimes we need a helping hand with a page number and user name etc. Without that then no action can be taken as if the thread is huge the F-Mods don't have all day to read it.

Just a foot note. If any F-Mod suspects someone of making a false report we do pass it along to Jagex for review. What Jages does after that is private between them and the account holder. Yes I've seen the result of false reporting being actioned with a mute. So it does happen. Just not too often. So hope that makes you feel better.

Also yes the topic got my interests and thats why I've replied. A lot. ;) It's like CaptKoloth said an active thread in here and not many are posted these days. Which is a shame as they are often fun to take part in. Comprehensive Account Security
What do snowmen have for breakfast? Snowflakes! :P

05-Oct-2021 12:20:02

mr togue
Sep Member 2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
i thank you all for partaking in this thread . i can not add more to the subject and if i tried i would be just repeating myself . i am glad to finally get this issue off my chest.

it does sadden me that a thread can not be made where a person who reports identify can not be hidden. for me it would not have caused my personal internal issues with others in the forums.

as i said in the thread i do believe the first step of solving any problems is to talk about it,,
and i feel we have. it was not the result i would have preferred but at least i can put it at rest now and move on

i hope you all enjoyed reading and posting in this thread as i have . again thank you all see you in the game ( unless i see you first and you are in the wilderness,, then you are mine , please wear your most expensive outfits )

05-Oct-2021 20:22:45 - Last edited on 05-Oct-2021 20:23:01 by mr togue

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