RuneScape Forum Archive | tattletailing is wrong

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I think calling Forum Help or the HLF Action Center "tattle tale" threads is quite reductive. These threads are here specifically for people to report instances of rule-breaking on the forums so that they can get actioned, and are an extremely important part of the forum ecosystem.

Are there sometimes users posting reports in bad faith? Absolutely, but that's just the nature of the threads, and not something we have control over. We address reports as they come in, and the reality of the situation is that yes, it would be obviously much better in terms of privacy if we could navigate that as an auto-hide thread, but that's unfortunately just not the case with how the forums are set up.

Myself and the FMods operate objectively when actioning reports on these threads, and indeed, it's literally part of my job to be impartial. We do not grant concessions to any one player, nor do we play favourites or give leniency to any one player in any situation.

However, the very nature of moderation obviously means that sometimes our actions will not resonate with certain users, and there are always going to be certain people who take issue with specific moderation decisions, and this is what FMR is for. Is it a perfect system? No, I won't claim that it is, but realistically it's the one we need to operate within.

mr togue said :

your concern for specific defined forums is some what disturbing in context you are asking

i am referring to runescape forums that is clearly implied .. but i do not feel the need or requirement for me to specifically name one ,

To answer to this, I was very much legitimately just asking for clarification, as your opening post was extremely vague, and I wanted to better understand what you were taking issue with. I was merely trying to understand the situation better and understand where you were coming from, in no way was this an attack, and I'm confused as to why you consider this disturbing? Community Manager for Jagex

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03-Oct-2021 19:34:51

Sep

2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@CM Nick

with all due respect i request you take a moment to read my wall of text

it would not have been a wall of text had i had the opportunity to respond as each post was created but i had a emergency road trip which caused me to miss the opportunity to respond as other formers posted,

in my wall of text i very explicitly expressed why i used the wording "tattle tale forums",

IMO under the standard rule of not naming and shaming i stand by my right to generalize in reference to conversating about forums,

to put it bluntly ,,, i making sure i am protecting myself

03-Oct-2021 19:41:57 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2021 19:44:50 by mr togue

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

mr togue said :
@CM Nick

with all due respect i request you take a moment to read my wall of text

it would not have been a wall of text had i had the opportunity to respond as each post was created but i had a emergency road trip which caused me to miss the opportunity to respond as other formers posted,

in my wall of text i very explicitly expressed why i used the wording "tattle tale forums",

IMO under the standard rule of not naming and shaming i stand by my right to generalize in reference to conversating about forums,

to put it bluntly ,,, i making sure i am protecting myself

No, I understand that, but I'm telling you that you do not need to beat around the bush here when referring to the specific threads. Calling these threads by their names is not naming and shaming, and it creates more confusion and division by you referring to them as "tattletale."

I get that's your underlying issue with how you see these threads being used, but you can take it from me on good authority that referring to them by their actual names is not going to get you in trouble. Community Manager for Jagex

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03-Oct-2021 19:48:56

Sep

2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

ok from now on in my conversation in this thread and in this thread alone i will specify exactly which forum threads i am refering to,

but please be advised i feel i am being force to potentially open myself to repercussions by doing so

i am referring to all forum help threads that allow any one to complain about other peoples posts/threads

in one particular case i saw a thread in a any thing to be discussed forum that was reported because in the person who reported it claimed its a rant,

the forum was a any thing can be discussed runescape related or not,
it was not up to the that person to report it, yet the thread was hidden,
it begged me to ask myself ,, did the mod who hid the thread even realize the forum was a any thing goes forum? because it should not have been hidden . it appears the mod just hid it, because a regular reporter asked for it to be hidden , with out even considering if it was legit complaint

03-Oct-2021 20:01:10

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

mr togue said :
ok from now on in my conversation in this thread and in this thread alone i will specify exactly which forum threads i am refering to,

but please be advised i feel i am being force to potentially open myself to repercussions by doing so

i am referring to all forum help threads that allow any one to complain about other peoples posts/threads

in one particular case i saw a thread in a any thing to be discussed forum that was reported because in the person who reported it claimed its a rant,

the forum was a any thing can be discussed runescape related or not,
it was not up to the that person to report it, yet the thread was hidden,
it begged me to ask myself ,, did the mod who hid the thread even realize the forum was a any thing goes forum? because it should not have been hidden . it appears the mod just hid it, because a regular reporter asked for it to be hidden , with out even considering if it was legit complaint

I think this is making a lot of assumptions about the moderating process and the thoughts that go into it. Just because something can appear to you like it didn't need moderation or that no thought went into the decision does not make it so. Every report on Forum Help that I address is carefully weighed and the full context of the situation is taken into account, this is why there are reports on FH that I simply won't action because I don't feel like there's action that needs to be taken, or indeed reports where I will disagree with the reporter.

Even if it's an "everything goes" forum, there are still rules of the RSOF and the Code of Conduct that need to be followed. Even in Rants, we don't allow threads that are particularly vulgar or vile, because it goes against the CoC. Yes, Rants is kind of an "everything goes" forum, but it still has to adhere to the rules - it's given a bit more leeway, obviously, but it's definitely not "post whatever you want with no consequences." Community Manager for Jagex

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03-Oct-2021 20:10:35

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Some users post relentlessly on forum help (or did) with the most trvial of things, this is sad in istelf. What's even sadder is that the forum mods actually act on these posts. Only been happening since I started using the forums in 05/06 so I don't see anything happening about it anytime soon. Suppose it helps them getting the post count up

03-Oct-2021 20:31:38

Sep

2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@ cm nick

thank you you made my point for me the moment you agree that a rant was part of the any thing goes threads,, that says a rant in that forum was allowed, and there for the complaint was not legit under the guise of just being a rant
the person who is a well known reporter of threads should have already known that it was acceptable topic for that forum but he specified in his complaint that it was a rant

first its not his place to decide the infraction
second he should know the rules of the forum before he declares its a infraction
the issue was not that he made a complaint the issue was the complain was not legit and there was no consequences for making a false complaint
the issue was that the fmod hid a thread for no clear defined rule breaking

yes you can i am sure you will ,, say that there might have been or was other factors in place
your point would be valid, but my point is just as valid

i think its great that people help keep the forums stay clean and flow well,, but if people are constantly over and over making non legit complaints and it prevents even one time a legit posters ability to enjoy the forum there should be some kind of consequences to the person who makes false complaints

03-Oct-2021 20:52:09 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2021 20:54:21 by mr togue

Sep

2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

i think if i was to try and put all my thoughts in to one basket, it could be summed up this way

life has a way of check and balance

as the forums stand now and has stood for a very long time
there is no check and balance for false complaints

and the people who are abusing the flaw are the ones who are making the complaints in those forum help threads under the pretense they are being helpful

03-Oct-2021 21:03:31

CM Nick

Local Moderator Posts: 9,140 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

mr togue said :

i think its great that people help keep the forums stay clean and flow well,, but if people are constantly over and over making non legit complaints and it prevents even one time a legit posters ability to enjoy the forum there should be some kind of consequences to the person who makes false complaints

To speak to this, there are absolutely consequences for people who repeatedly misuse Forum Help, but simply highlighting a post or thread that someone thinks should have action taken against it does not constitute misusing the thread unless it's done maliciously or compulsively. Simply posting in FH about a thread or post that a user is concerned might be breaking the rules is not against the rules, even if that report ultimately has no action taken against it.

However, we have, and will continue to warn or take action against users if they are very clearly baiting users in a thread and then reporting them to FH, as this is both against the rules of RSOF and a misuse of Forum Help. Community Manager for Jagex

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03-Oct-2021 21:04:39 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2021 21:05:22 by CM Nick

Sep

2020

mr togue

Posts: 6,957 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

CM Nick said :
mr togue said :

i think its great that people help keep the forums stay clean and flow well,, but if people are constantly over and over making non legit complaints and it prevents even one time a legit posters ability to enjoy the forum there should be some kind of consequences to the person who makes false complaints

To speak to this, there are absolutely consequences for people who repeatedly misuse Forum Help, but simply highlighting a post or thread that someone thinks should have action taken against it does not constitute misusing the thread unless it's done maliciously or compulsively. Simply posting in FH about a thread or post that a user is concerned might be breaking the rules is not against the rules, even if that report ultimately has no action taken against it.

However, we have, and will continue to warn or take action against users if they are very clearly baiting users in a thread and then reporting them to FH, as this is both against the rules of RSOF and a misuse of Forum Help.

the act of baiting some one ,,, which causes a poster to violate a forum rules then the person who baited makes the complaint then goes back to the thread to continue the process is wrong,

clearly its not against the rules, the person who made the complaint has the right to express their opinion or thoughts ,, but its not right if is a behavioral pattern and if there are not consequences for this, this will and does happen over and over again

the diffuculty is to identfing who is doing this
but after all these years,people who have experience like tuffy should be able to spot the pattern

( to be continued)

03-Oct-2021 21:20:30 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2021 21:23:52 by mr togue

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tattletailing is wrong