RuneScape Forum Archive | Wilderness and Free Trade Vote

Roth Detarri

Posts: 22 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I would buy it (my shirt idea above) from Jagex myself, and I really don't understand the source of the voting concerns. True, I was confused myself when they put out the initial "poll" -- but once I understood it was nothing but a test of whether it would be worth having a full vote, I didn't mind it.
(I'm still not certain why it was necessary and a "real" vote just couldn't be done to begin with, but maybe there's some British Parliamentary thing in there I don't get.)
As far as the real vote, where you had to fully log in and could only vote once, I may have voted "nay" myself for my own reasons, but I have no problem at all believing that 90% voted "yea." You just have to go talk to random people in the game to see how prevalent the pro-old-wilderness mindset is.
Let's face it, about the only time you can see more than a tiny minority of people speaking against the old wilderness in one place is a clan chat or forum thread where it's a focus of discussion that draws us in to be heard.
(And for what it's worth, I started playing RS in the days of the old wildy -- both as a free and member, and I can survive its return, bots and all. Although I hope anti-botting measures have indeed improved as much as Jagex claims.)

19-Jan-2011 19:09:55

dunforgiven

Posts: 102,158 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Phthartic

19-Jan-2011 06:36:32
...A person who hasn't done varrock diaries is not going to be able to pick up a varrock kiteshield ...
varrack kiteshield? you mean vorack armor or folly shield right?
since both of them would be free to get back, its unlikely that they will be dropped and picked up anyway.
Mystic Monad

19-Jan-2011 14:25:22
Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 17:24:52 by Mystic Monad
...Even if Jagex was already planning to bring back the wildy and free trade, given how controversial the subject is, having a poll was necessary to show players who might object that this was the will of the players, and not just the will of Jagex. ...
then they failed. if they had wanted to truely show that it was the will of the players, they would have made an effort to make sure that it wasnt being misused.
Mystic Monad

19-Jan-2011 14:47:49
What you don't seem to understand is that the general goal of most players

...key word there "most"...
merchants are a small percentage of players that ruined the game for the majority. maybe i dont have a phd in economics, but i know what was happening pre2008. 4 percent of theplayers made it impossible for the majority of players to do many skills. frankly my dear, I couldn't give a dam. never had a river to build one on.
veteran of 4 runescapes

19-Jan-2011 19:25:38 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 19:33:27 by dunforgiven

Phthartic

Posts: 1,730 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I memorandum you quilla from earlier in the thread. Why do you use (by implication) their knowingly incorrect terminology?
"...7% voted..."
implies 7% of players (people) does it not? Lets keep reminding people of the huge difference between 7% of votes and 7% of players. A lot of people could use the lesson to hopefully reduce the chances of their real lives being negatively impacted by real life voter fraud.
Nope, I don't blame a company for doing things to increase their revenue at all. I however would draw the line (were I in charge) at making money by encouraging cheating (botting) or pretending to ask if customers want something that I was going to do anyway.
They could make most of the money they're hoping to get by changing PVP worlds to operate with old-wildy rules instead of the convoluted system they currently use. This would require returning free trade, but at least they could reduce the harm to the civilized player population by limiting PKers to killing each other.
Unless of course PKers are lying about not wanting to exclusively kill unarmed skillers and clue scrollers....

19-Jan-2011 19:28:44 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 19:41:01 by Phthartic

Phthartic

Posts: 1,730 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dang it, agent, I knew I was going to get those items mixed up. I use them all the time, but can't remember which is which...

19-Jan-2011 19:30:02

dunforgiven

Posts: 102,158 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Aze CoLD

19-Jan-2011 17:17:32
Don't you agree with me that this rule is VERY stupid?
After the update you CAN give your friends 20m gold, but you CANT give your own account 20m gold?????????????
no it isnt stupid. a main account can make a 20 million i a day with little difficult.
a newb account cant make that much in months. if a secondary newb account goes against a new players newb account, he has a major disadvantage if the secondary account got help form his "big brother". the game is suppose to be fair to all, not just to those rich enough to afford a lot of accounts.
...I want to know HOW..
if they told everyone how, rwters would use it to get around their methods.
Phthartic

19-Jan-2011 19:30:02
Dang it, agent, I knew I was going to get those items mixed up. I use them all the time, but can't remember which is which...
easy to do.
Roth Detarri

19-Jan-2011 18:00:16
...Why not a shirt that says "The Wilderness came back over my dead body."...
they can put me on the waiting list right now. frankly my dear, I couldn't give a dam. never had a river to build one on.
veteran of 4 runescapes

19-Jan-2011 19:45:21 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 19:50:37 by dunforgiven

May

2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Roth Detarri,
The main source of the current "voting concerns" seems to be that those who didn't get what they wanted just plain don't like how it came out.
Also, according to a poll on one of the fansites, many more players wanted free trade only than wanted the wilderness only. But a sizeable majority wanted both.
The reason people who voted against it have lots of friends who voted against it is that "birds of a feather flock together." People who don't like pking tend to hang around others who don't like pking. So the main information that an informal poll of friends provides is, "What do people who think sort of like me think about this?"
It's clear, both from the vote itself and from the sustained clamor for the return of free trade and the wildy that led to the vote, that a large majority of players wants free trade and the wildy back. Even dedicated pkers having multiple accounts can't account for a 91% majority--especially since as has been pointed out here many times, pkers are *not* the majority of players in RS.
I'm not a pker--never have been, and never will be--and I voted yes. I wanted free trade back*
*** just hasn't been the same since the trade limits came in.
Without the ability to share with friends and give gifts to friends, the whole game has been much more impersonal. Two of my favorite activities to do with friends and fellow players--King Dagannoth hunting and hiring ess runners--were largely broken up by the end of free trade.
I know why Jagex ended the wilderness and free trade. Three words: Real world Trading. But it came at a heavy cost to the friendliness and playability of the game for honest players.
I'm concerned about Jagex's ability to control botting and RWT. But I'm glad that honest players will no longer have to pay such a heavy penalty in the quality of RS game play in order to combat RWT.

19-Jan-2011 19:46:49

dunforgiven

Posts: 102,158 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Roth Detarri

19-Jan-2011 19:09:55
..You just have to go talk to random people in the game to see how prevalent the pro-old-wilderness mindset is....
actually, ive done that, and so far, its more like 3 out of 4 were against it.
Mystic Monad

19-Jan-2011 19:46:49
Roth Detarri,
The main source of the current "voting concerns" seems to be that those who didn't get what they wanted just plain don't like how it came out ...
wrong. the main concern is that the way it was done was wrong. they encouraged new account to be made to vote. they encouraged pkers who historically have mulitple accounts to vote with all of them.
it wasnt about not getting what we want, its about how it was a set up from the begining. the t shirts is the latest proof. it should have taken weeks to get it ready for marketing, yet its back in days, if not hours. frankly my dear, I couldn't give a dam. never had a river to build one on.
veteran of 4 runescapes

19-Jan-2011 19:53:43 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 19:56:09 by dunforgiven

May

2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Agent B MiB,
A PhD in economics? If you had even the most *basic* understanding of economics, you couldn't possibly say some of the things you've been saying.
It is clear that you simply don't understand what merchants do for an economy, and how they make life better both for players in RS and for people in real life.
I'd be happy to continue explaining it for you if you're willing to listen. For a start, please read carefully some of my recent posts here about merchanting.
But once again, you're in good company. There is rant after rant about the "evil merchants" by people who don't understand merchanting, confuse merchanting with buyout scams, etc.
And once again, I strongly suggest that you learn something about how an economy works, so that you are no longer a part of those ignorant masses.
And if you refuse to do so, please don't go into business in the real world. ;-)
On second thought, please open up a major department store in my neighborhood. I'd love to shop at a store that sells its items for the same price it buys them.

19-Jan-2011 19:54:25 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 19:55:05 by Mystic Monad

dunforgiven

Posts: 102,158 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mystic Monad

19-Jan-2011 19:54:25
Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 19:55:05 by Mystic Monad
Agent B MiB,
A PhD in economics? If you had even the most *basic* understanding of economics, you couldn't possibly say some of the things you've been saying.
i might not understand rl economics, but i know rs economics pretty good. i had to deal with merchants for 5 years before the updates.
i have been insulted so many times by merchants when i asked how was skillers suppose to make money. the first time was less than a month after i had started when i was told that skillers that expected to make money skilling was what was ruining the game.
have you ever tried standing in a bank selling coal in small groups while merchants undercut you continueally, until you sold at 70 of the going rate? thats the way they made money pre ge.
in the rl world there are laws and things that prevent things like this happening, but in the game, they were normal. in real life, it would be called price fixing and people would go to jail. in the game, it WAS called merchanting.
i have no problem with merchanting though the ge (not manipulation clans or what you call buyout clans), but i do not want them removing the ge and giving the game to the minority again. frankly my dear, I couldn't give a dam. never had a river to build one on.
veteran of 4 runescapes

19-Jan-2011 19:58:14 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2011 20:03:06 by dunforgiven

May

2005

Mystic Monad

Posts: 12,305 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Phthartic,
If there is even a *single* world that operates the way the old wildy did, the gates are wide open for everything that the old wildy and free trade offered to RWTers. The gold farmers would simply use that world to do their transfers.
The reason Bounty Hunter (at the wilderness volcano) was shut down was that RWTers figured out how to use it to transfer items from one account to another.
Really, it's all or nothing. Jagex can't sort of bring back the wilderness and free trade any more than a woman can be sort of pregnant. ;-) To do so would be to continue to restrict honest players in their game play, forcing them into a few overcrowded, restriction-free worlds, while leaving the door wide open for RTWers.
If Jagex is going to bring back the wildy and free trade at all (which we know know that it is), it has to use other methods of combating RWT. Jagex seems confident it's up to the task. I hope the Jagex staff is right about that.

19-Jan-2011 20:02:30

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Wilderness and Free Trade Vote