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@Fifi, I believe my bias has been very clear throughout my posts here (at least I hope
) starting from my very first post and perhaps I'm a little over optimistic about this shift to EVs in general (not just Tesla's).
That being said, it's a direction we are going in nonetheless, I guess the question or concern is more around how we get there and how quickly we get there.
I'm not going to speak to the intentions behind individuals like Elon Musk as I can't. Obviously money is a driver for this, but is it the only driver? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, you can't argue against how he's disrupted the automaker industry, potentially for the better (we'll see what happens).
When we talk about a set deadline or goal being unachievable, I appreciate that a shift too quickly can provoke fear and anxiety. What doesn't help though is misconceptions & misinformation (not suggesting you're intentionally trying to be misleading). In an earlier post you said how this 2030 deadline (for the UK) is unachievable and unrealistic. But you made that point by citing how the UK has 38+ million vehicles. But as I pointed out, we're not talking about 38+ million vehicles in this 9/10 year timeframe, we're talking about at most, close to a 20th of that figure (around 2 million) - that's a drastically different goal.
If the goal was to shift all 38 million vehicles over to EVs by 2030 then I'd be with you 100% - that's just unrealistic in so many different ways, but that's not what is happening and that needs to be made absolutely clear.
I also agree with you that the UK needs to seriously invest in its infrastructure, that's a given and I'm sure the UK will (hopefully
) and obviously economic impacts from Covid is really not helping but that's not to say it can't be done, or that when we approach these deadlines set by governments that they can't be delayed if its deemed not ready which is why I've said having these deadlines aren't necessarily harmful.
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) starting from my very first post and perhaps I'm a little over optimistic about this shift to EVs in general (not just Tesla's).
That being said, it's a direction we are going in nonetheless, I guess the question or concern is more around how we get there and how quickly we get there.
I'm not going to speak to the intentions behind individuals like Elon Musk as I can't. Obviously money is a driver for this, but is it the only driver? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, you can't argue against how he's disrupted the automaker industry, potentially for the better (we'll see what happens).
When we talk about a set deadline or goal being unachievable, I appreciate that a shift too quickly can provoke fear and anxiety. What doesn't help though is misconceptions & misinformation (not suggesting you're intentionally trying to be misleading). In an earlier post you said how this 2030 deadline (for the UK) is unachievable and unrealistic. But you made that point by citing how the UK has 38+ million vehicles. But as I pointed out, we're not talking about 38+ million vehicles in this 9/10 year timeframe, we're talking about at most, close to a 20th of that figure (around 2 million) - that's a drastically different goal.
If the goal was to shift all 38 million vehicles over to EVs by 2030 then I'd be with you 100% - that's just unrealistic in so many different ways, but that's not what is happening and that needs to be made absolutely clear.
I also agree with you that the UK needs to seriously invest in its infrastructure, that's a given and I'm sure the UK will (hopefully
) and obviously economic impacts from Covid is really not helping but that's not to say it can't be done, or that when we approach these deadlines set by governments that they can't be delayed if its deemed not ready which is why I've said having these deadlines aren't necessarily harmful.
Joel
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01-Dec-2020 17:40:56
Joel
said
:
With advancements in technology we're making it more achievable to harness energy in more sustainable ways and what we can do today is not what we'll be able to do in 10, 20, 50 years time - in the same breath, what we do today wasn't what we were doing 10, 20, 50 years ago.
"Renewable energy" such a solar panels, wind farms... they're not sustainable. They generally use more energy to create, then they will generate throughout their lifetime. How is that "sustainable"? They're using fossil fuels to produce products that will ultimately produce less energy than what it took to make them. Wind turbines generally take around 15 years for them to finally break even on price. Wind turbines generally last about 20 years.
It's funny tho... the same type of people who push for "renewable energy" are the same type of people who demand that fossil fuels be banned due to concerns over atmospheric C02... but none of them ever seem to promote companies like Carbon Engineering. You know, that Canadian company that no one has heard of that producing fuel from atmospheric carbon dioxide?
You want renewable energy? You want to lower the C02 levels in the atmosphere? Because that's what they do. And if you ban countries from producing carbon dioxide, what do you think will happen in a few years when more corporations are pulling carbon dioxide from the atmosphere?
Being environmentally friendly doesn't mean banning things that are naturally formed because you believe they have a negative impact, it means balancing things, so that things aren't too abundant, and things aren't too scarce. If putting C02 into the atmosphere is an issue, the solution is to remove the excess, not just ban people from adding more.
The idea that some people think the world can survive on wind and solar is laughable.
P.S. The Earth is literally a giant saltwater battery. It just needs to be plugged in. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
With advancements in technology we're making it more achievable to harness energy in more sustainable ways and what we can do today is not what we'll be able to do in 10, 20, 50 years time - in the same breath, what we do today wasn't what we were doing 10, 20, 50 years ago.
"Renewable energy" such a solar panels, wind farms... they're not sustainable. They generally use more energy to create, then they will generate throughout their lifetime. How is that "sustainable"? They're using fossil fuels to produce products that will ultimately produce less energy than what it took to make them. Wind turbines generally take around 15 years for them to finally break even on price. Wind turbines generally last about 20 years.
It's funny tho... the same type of people who push for "renewable energy" are the same type of people who demand that fossil fuels be banned due to concerns over atmospheric C02... but none of them ever seem to promote companies like Carbon Engineering. You know, that Canadian company that no one has heard of that producing fuel from atmospheric carbon dioxide?
You want renewable energy? You want to lower the C02 levels in the atmosphere? Because that's what they do. And if you ban countries from producing carbon dioxide, what do you think will happen in a few years when more corporations are pulling carbon dioxide from the atmosphere?
Being environmentally friendly doesn't mean banning things that are naturally formed because you believe they have a negative impact, it means balancing things, so that things aren't too abundant, and things aren't too scarce. If putting C02 into the atmosphere is an issue, the solution is to remove the excess, not just ban people from adding more.
The idea that some people think the world can survive on wind and solar is laughable.
P.S. The Earth is literally a giant saltwater battery. It just needs to be plugged in. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
01-Dec-2020 19:40:41 - Last edited on 01-Dec-2020 19:43:05 by NexOrigin
Dong U Dead
said
:
If electric cars are our future I feel close to every public parking spot needs a changing device. It's an interesting proposal, but, is there a gas pump close to every public parking spot?
Dong U Dead said :
Not all homes are equipped for electric cars. Well, technically, they are. Every EV sold has a 110v charger that you can plug into your outlet at home. However, they are slow chargers. You come home, you plug your car in overnight, and it's fully charged in the morning.
The EV charging stations you see in public are fast chargers. They're designed to charge your batteries quickly. Some of them will charge to 80% in around 15 minutes. You don't HAVE to use those chargers, they're just more convenient because of their speed. And you can buy fast chargers for your home as well. Generally they're just 220v DC inverters.
In Canada, there are over 5000 public EV charging stations. Their goal is to install enough charging stations along the Trans Canada Highway that you could literally drive across the entire country and not have to worry about finding a charging station.
I have an EV. It's a street bike (sort of lol). It's a Daymak EM2. I charge it at home. I just plug it in overnight. I didn't buy it to "save the planet" or anything like that. I literally bought it to just save money, and so I wouldn't have to worry about "not having gas" and having to find a ride to the gas station with a gas can. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
If electric cars are our future I feel close to every public parking spot needs a changing device. It's an interesting proposal, but, is there a gas pump close to every public parking spot?
Dong U Dead said :
Not all homes are equipped for electric cars. Well, technically, they are. Every EV sold has a 110v charger that you can plug into your outlet at home. However, they are slow chargers. You come home, you plug your car in overnight, and it's fully charged in the morning.
The EV charging stations you see in public are fast chargers. They're designed to charge your batteries quickly. Some of them will charge to 80% in around 15 minutes. You don't HAVE to use those chargers, they're just more convenient because of their speed. And you can buy fast chargers for your home as well. Generally they're just 220v DC inverters.
In Canada, there are over 5000 public EV charging stations. Their goal is to install enough charging stations along the Trans Canada Highway that you could literally drive across the entire country and not have to worry about finding a charging station.
I have an EV. It's a street bike (sort of lol). It's a Daymak EM2. I charge it at home. I just plug it in overnight. I didn't buy it to "save the planet" or anything like that. I literally bought it to just save money, and so I wouldn't have to worry about "not having gas" and having to find a ride to the gas station with a gas can. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
01-Dec-2020 20:13:34
So the part of my post you quoted still stands...
Not really sure where the disagreement is here. If we're in a position in the not too distant future to be more sustainable, in whatever form that takes, great. It doesn't have to be limited to one way or another, to just be limited to solar, wind, hydro - what's wrong with a combination of solutions providing they are actually sustainable, especially more so than fossil fuels?
Trying to steer back to the original topic of discussion, I think it's totally feasible to have a solution or group of solutions to support a world in which starts to shift towards electrical vehicles that last longer and require less maintenance over your standard ICE vehicles and an infrastructure that supports the charging of them
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Not really sure where the disagreement is here. If we're in a position in the not too distant future to be more sustainable, in whatever form that takes, great. It doesn't have to be limited to one way or another, to just be limited to solar, wind, hydro - what's wrong with a combination of solutions providing they are actually sustainable, especially more so than fossil fuels?
Trying to steer back to the original topic of discussion, I think it's totally feasible to have a solution or group of solutions to support a world in which starts to shift towards electrical vehicles that last longer and require less maintenance over your standard ICE vehicles and an infrastructure that supports the charging of them
Joel
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01-Dec-2020 20:26:37
NexOrigin
said
:
In Canada, there are over 5000 public EV charging stations. Their goal is to install enough charging stations along the Trans Canada Highway that you could literally drive across the entire country and not have to worry about finding a charging station. Depending on what EV you have this is already done
The chargers along the route are the fastest available right now as well which is awesome.
Already planning a 2021 summer road trip along the Trans-Canada from East over to the West coast
Hopefully it doesn't take too much time for the chargers along the route to become more universal so it can support a wider range of EVs
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In Canada, there are over 5000 public EV charging stations. Their goal is to install enough charging stations along the Trans Canada Highway that you could literally drive across the entire country and not have to worry about finding a charging station. Depending on what EV you have this is already done
The chargers along the route are the fastest available right now as well which is awesome.
Already planning a 2021 summer road trip along the Trans-Canada from East over to the West coast
Hopefully it doesn't take too much time for the chargers along the route to become more universal so it can support a wider range of EVs
Joel
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01-Dec-2020 20:30:16
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