RuneScape Forum Archive | Electric Car Chargers

FiFi LaFeles

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Joel said :

@FiFi, so what would be your solution? Not set a deadline? If the government doesn't set a deadline, then automakers will continue to drag their feet and not innovate - or at least only innovate as much as they really need to.

Yes, that's exactly what I'd like to see.

If the Govt has an agenda item for EVs that's fine, they should get on with it.
Source the money, build the power stations, refurbish the National Grid (it needs it anyway), get at least some of the charging points infrastructure in place ... then tell the population when they'll be required to switch.

At the moment the country has no money to do any of these things properly and the population is still reeling, personally and financially, from the backlash of Covid and Brexit. Piling this enormous worry and uncertainty and personal expense onto an already fragile economy and impoverished population is nothing short of bloody stupid for stupidness' sake.

The car manufacturers will continue with their developments regardless; EVs will be the 'thing' at some point anyway. Tesla et al are not some benevolent planet saving organisation, they are an outfit who want to make money and lots of it.

Trying to brute-force an unrealistic deadline which will see large swathes of the population turned into unwilling hitch-hikers due to a half-baked infrastructure and a gung-ho policy is pathetic. Sure, the deadline can be pushed back but why set one at all before having even the first steps of basic groundwork resolved, never mind in place. Pointless.

The whole 10 year thing is so glaringly unrealistic and un-doable in the UK that it's breath-taking and bludgeoning the population with the worry of it is nothing short of sadistic.

Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

01-Dec-2020 10:31:33

Jan

2006

Rooh

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The ridiculous thing is that they brought it forward very recently (during all this other stuff we're enduring already)... it was originally going to be 2035.

Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about?

01-Dec-2020 10:37:30

FiFi LaFeles

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The other thing I find astonishing about this whole situation is that people who are so pro-EV because of their planetary benefits (alleged) turn a blind eye entirely to the pollution they are already causing and will escalate to cause even more.

Lithium mines are in no way 'green'. Not even close. But that gets brushed under the carpet with blithe statements such as 'oh, they'll get better at doing it, they'll get cleaner' .... oh really?
How's that then? Anyone know?

And that's just one of their many not-so-green aspects/long term negatives.

All these will, of course, be pooh-pooh'd, dismissed, brushed aside, kept a bit quiet, not reported on too much, we'll be told that 'advancements will make it all better eventually' yahdey-yah.

Would it be tinfoil hat to suggest all these considerations are swept aside due to the EV industry and market offering the potential (to the select few) for lots of money being made now and in the future? That's lots - and lots - of money ........

I'd be all for an alternative means of transport power if it were proven to be better than what we have now. Cleaner. Cheaper. More ecofriendly in it's entirety. But there isn't one.

What I'm seeing is a woefully under-prepared Govt leaping on the Green bandwagon to the detriment of it's own coffers and people in order to swap one form of pollution and resource gobbling for another in some kind of grotesque virtue signalling gesture.

Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

01-Dec-2020 10:49:35

Sep

2005

Megycal

Posts: 18,097 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@ Joel. I have no problem with paying extra for features when you buy the car but I do have a HUGE problem with them being there and working when you purchase the vehicle and the manufacturer then turning them off later with an "update".

@ Fifi. Well said

01-Dec-2020 10:56:43

Feb

2005

Joel

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@Fifi, only recently since governments have started to set deadlines, have people taken notice and have EVs gained traction (coupled with companies like Tesla who are pushing towards it).

Like I've said, a goal gives us something to aim for. Its OK to not reach that goal or maybe have to push back/delay if by the time we get there things aren't quite 'ready' but a set goal is better than no goal nonetheless.

FiFi LaFeles said :
As of June 2020 there were 38.4 MILLION licenced vehicles in Great Britain.

Put any sort of optimistic spin on it you want but certainly the UK will not be ready in the time scale the Govt is insisting upon. Going back to an earlier comment you made, I think it's important to note that this new EV legislation wouldn't be impacting 38.4 million vehicles. It only impacts the sale of new ICE vehicles, not all ICE vehicles.

In 2019, there were 2.3 million new vehicles bought in the UK - It's still a lot of vehicles but its certainly not 38 million. People can still buy and sell used / close to new ICE cars and to be completely transitioned over to fully electric vehicles, that's quite some time away and not going to happen in 2030, and unlikely even in 2035.

So no, there isn't going to be an instant & huge demand on the grid right away by all in one go, forcing everyone over to EVs - That isn't what's happening here so I think it's important to make that abundantly clear.

In terms of not being prepared - a set deadline incentivizes preparedness, at least to move more quickly towards it. And by pushing for this, it can place the UK in a leading position and hopefully (which I'm sure is the plan) will create a bunch of new jobs in this area and help the economy.

Joel

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01-Dec-2020 15:18:56

Feb

2005

Joel

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In terms of pollution, are EVs perfect? Absolutely not. Is it better than your standard ICE car, I'd argue it is, despite its imperfections. I'm not blind to the fact that EVs still cause pollution but this is currently a moving target. We've not got to this stage, given ourselves a pat on the back and say we're done.

I'm also not blind to the fact that when I charge my car, I'm using electricity that a % of which came from a non-renewable source. But change has to start somewhere.

EVs are continually advancing, battery tech is continually advancing and I'm pretty hopeful with what I've seen so far, while not perfect, it can improve over time and be way more sustainable and environmentally friendly compared with ICE vehicles solely relying on fossil fuels.

Megycal said :
@ Joel. I have no problem with paying extra for features when you buy the car but I do have a HUGE problem with them being there and working when you purchase the vehicle and the manufacturer then turning them off later with an "update".

@ Fifi. Well said
I completely agree - I'd be interested to know more details about this as taking something away isn't really acceptable. But that said, with cars able to receive over the air updates, it means they can actually introduce updates and new features over time and have the car remain more relevant and even 'get better' rather than it stuck in the time of when you bought it.

Joel

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01-Dec-2020 15:19:04

NexOrigin

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So... how do they make the electricity for the electric cars? I mean... the whole "planetary benefit" angle of "green vehicles that produce no pollution" kind of falls apart when you realize that the majority of electricity is produced... from burning coal and fossil fuels. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

01-Dec-2020 15:45:21

Feb

2005

Joel

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NexOrigin said :
So... how do they make the electricity for the electric cars? I mean... the whole "planetary benefit" angle of "green vehicles that produce no pollution" kind of falls apart when you realize that the majority of electricity is produced... from burning coal and fossil fuels.

Joel said :
I'm also not blind to the fact that when I charge my car, I'm using electricity that a % of which came from a non-renewable source. But change has to start somewhere.

As I've said, this is clearly the very beginning of a much larger shift to not just more sustainable travel but sustainable energy to support that travel. It's not going to happen overnight. Is the fact that it cannot happen overnight an excuse not to do it? No.

Joel

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01-Dec-2020 15:59:02

FiFi LaFeles

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Joel, I get it that you are in love with Tesla (being an owner of one). But I think you should always bear in mind that Tesla, and others, are not in this for altruistic reasons. They're in it for the money.

And yes having goals is great. However, when they are unrealistic and unachievable in the time span allocated then they are not an admirable thing to have. They create fear, anxiety, uncertainty and stress in a population and economy that already has it's back to the wall.

The UK hasn't even started taking it's first baby steps yet in being able to achieve it's monumental stated goals - we're all left with this bloody great Sword of Damocles hanging over our heads. Quite the icing on the shit cake that has been 2020.

I'm not against electric cars - I'm against my Govt pushing through legislation which they, the country's infrastructure and the population's income cannot hope to have in the ridiculously optimistic time span allotted. It puts unnecessary stress and pressure on individuals and companies, local government and peripheral suppliers at a time when they could seriously do with a bit of breathing space.

So here in the UK we were already closing down our coal power stations. Splendid?
Well now, Drax station is using wood pellets ..... wood actually produces more carbon dioxide per unit of power generated than coal when it is burnt to generate electricity. So that's not very sensible, hmm.

Presumably we'll go for more Nuclear stations, problem is what to do with the waste. Sellafield is running out of space now. There's nowhere else to put it. No part of the UK will agree to have a storage facility - a moot point since we don't have the new power stations built yet anyway.

Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

01-Dec-2020 16:11:21

NexOrigin

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Joel said :
It's not going to happen overnight. Is the fact that it cannot happen overnight an excuse not to do it? No.

California is a prime example of why it's never going to happen.

Think about it... they increase the demand for electricity by forcing people to drive electric vehicles... while at the same time, reducing the supply by phasing out coal and oil plants.

At some point, guess what happens? Rolling blackouts... as the demand exceeds the supply. Then what happens? Then you're buying electricity from neighboring countries/states, which have an excess of electricity because they're still burning fossil fuel and coal, and simply generate more electricity when needed, instead of hoping that it's sunny out... or windy out... I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

01-Dec-2020 16:16:36

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