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Joel
Feb
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2005

Joel

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I was actually going to create a thread about EVs since they're a hot topic right now and no doubt will continue to be in the spot light.

I just bought a new Tesla Model 3 so I'm getting stuck right into the EV market and its advancements, updates etc.

So the main concern seems to be demand for electricity. I think yes, under the current infrastructure many countries have, there would be an issue but that's not to say by the time we reach widespread adoption of EVs that we wouldn't be in a better position.

It's sparking massive investment right now with Tesla seemingly leading the pack. It's pushed the longstanding automakers into the EV direction or risk being left behind. With massive investments and technological advancements I'm not overly worried about increased demand in the future.

In terms of raw materials to make the batteries and so on, I'd have to lookup actual estimates but lithium for example is widely abundant at the moment and battery tech is another that's getting more and more investment as more attention is payed to EVs.

Right now EVs are pretty expensive, at least the ones with decent range but they're getting better. Range is increasing, prices will come down over time (as it does with everything) and even Tesla has vowed to make a more affordable Electric Vehicle that's more accessible to lower income families.

Let's not forget, we're still in very early days relatively speaking.

I think the ultimate goal here would to have a fleet of vehicles that are environmentally friendly (yes, EVs still go through the normal manufacturing process right now which has a carbon footprint) that could charge from renewable sources and have a MUCH longer lifespan but this is a longer term shift that's going to take some time to achieve and it won't be without challenges.

But as far as Tesla is concerned, they're doing pretty well so far in facing these challenges.
Joel

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30-Nov-2020 15:25:39

Joel
Feb
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2005

Joel

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Megycal said :
One thing, are electric cars all automatics? I assume they must be due to how they work. I prefer a manual gearbox because I don't feel in charge when I drive my husband's ( petrol ) automatic. It creeps forward as soon as you have it in drive and take your foot off the brake. I want the car to only move forward when
I
depress the accelerator. This happens with every automatic car he's had.
Technically yes, in the sense that you do not need to change gears. Although an automatic gas car changes gears for you, an EV doesn't even have gears. :P it's just a constant and consistent stream of power & acceleration sent to the wheels (and it feels amazing).

I'm not a mechanic or anything close but the 'creep' in an automatic is with how the engine is engaged. It would be the equivalent of putting a manual car in 1st gear and lifting off the clutch without pressing the accelerator - it'll 'creep' forward.

EVs do not have this - although Tesla's software allows you to enable this to optionally give you that feel (if you wanted it to resemble a gas car feel) but its pointless and not energy efficient.

The thing that is common with EVs is Regen Braking. It means the car will brake as soon as you lift off the accelerator as it pushes power back to the battery for efficiency. It also means you barely use the actual brakes which results in less maintenance on them.

After switching from a gas car to an EV exactly a week ago, I can safely say I never want to switch back! The drive of an EV is incredible.
Joel

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30-Nov-2020 15:38:03

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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Joel said :
....
So the main concern seems to be demand for electricity. I think yes, under the current infrastructure many countries have, there would be an issue but that's not to say by the time we reach widespread adoption of EVs that we wouldn't be in a better position.

It's sparking massive investment right now with Tesla seemingly leading the pack. It's pushed the longstanding automakers into the EV direction or risk being left behind. With massive investments and technological advancements I'm not overly worried about increased demand in the future.

In terms of raw materials to make the batteries and so on, I'd have to lookup actual estimates but lithium for example is widely abundant at the moment and battery tech is another that's getting more and more investment as more attention is payed to EVs.
....

A casual Google says it takes at least 5 years to get a new nuclear powerplant on line. So the UK might manage 2, if we're quick. And can spend about £44 billion minimum (forgetting our already enormous National Debt courtesy of Covid).

Then there's the cost of providing charging infrastructure; labour, parts and so on.

Frankly, I AM worried about electricity demand for the future. We have 10 years here to sort it out.

As for Lithium, here's a something for the Greener people to contemplate:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact

And lastly, as to the cost of cars:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/04/higher-price-of-electric-cars-a-concern-for-more-than-half-of-uk-consumers

More than half of a small number of people polled are concerned. Many more (un-polled) will be unable to afford these cars. Presumably the less well off individuals don't really matter even if that constitutes half the population of the UK.
Le Chat Guerrier

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30-Nov-2020 16:53:40

Joel
Feb
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2005

Joel

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As I said, this whole shift is not without its fair share of challenges and its certainly not without consequence or a carbon footprint. But ultimately we are going to shift away from fossil fuels, that's a given. It's just a question of time and where that shift takes us.

As far as charging infrastructure goes, there's already improvements and expansions being made. The Tesla Supercharging network as an example is continually growing and existing charging locations are being upgraded to provide faster charge rates. The network in the UK is still a little behind that of North America but that's not a surprise. And outside of Tesla there's more 'destination charging' becoming more widely available at supermarkets and other public locations.

And as I also said, yes, these vehicles are expensive right now but that's simply because we're in the very early stages of this sort of shift over to electrical vehicles. This isn't a new concept, everything that's new or in very early stages tend to be overly expensive and overtime that cost comes down.

While EVs aren't at the point yet where they can be produced with minimal to no impact on the environment, that's not to say (even with increasing demand) it will always be that way. The entire goal of this is to make it so that we are not harming the environment, at least to the extent at which we do through fossil fuels, but there's still a long way to go.

I think by governments setting targets of when they wish to have no new sales of petrol vehicles, it sets a goal. It then pushes companies to not drag their feet and incentivizes them to innovate.
Joel

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30-Nov-2020 17:50:31

XSlay4DeathX
Mar Member 2007

XSlay4DeathX

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Rooh said :
I read somewhere the other day (I think it might have been the Top Gear website) that there are plans to install charging points on lamp posts for people who need to recharge on the street.

Again, I think this is flawed because lamp posts are so far apart on most streets that they'd only be useable by one or two cars.

Another thought... what will happen to petrol stations? Presumably some will have to continue selling petrol/diesel for quite some time, but that will slowly drop off.
Will they become charging stations? That could work if charging times are decreased.

If the batteries can be removed, would be better(i have no idea about the designing)

"lets just pop this battery out and replace it with a charged one" "get this on charger asap we only have 300 charged atm"

Cost+waiting for a charge, i'll stick to gas, that's coming from someone who is very against many of todays things. I can't see it working out, i hate batteries but both have them.

30-Nov-2020 18:31:02

Joel
Feb
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2005

Joel

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^ I think that avenue is being explored, to have a empty-ish battery be swapped out for a charged battery as a form of refuelling. But I think right now the focus is more on fast charging in a way that's sustainable and doesn't degrade the battery too quickly.

With having a home charger, you're essentially leaving on a full tank every day with no need to visit a gas station again. If you solely rely on public charging or supercharging like I do, it takes a slight adjustment but not drastically. I can charge my car from 20% up to 80% in about 15-25mins give or take and that's improving and getting quicker too. Prior to this I'd fill up at Costco and I'd usually be there for 10/15mins depending on how busy it is anyway. At least now I can chill and watch YouTube, Netflix or play some games on the in-car screen.

On road trips you tend to have chargers strategically placed across the country and located next to travel stops with WiFi, washrooms, food etc and you just time it when you'd stop for a washroom or food break anyway.
Joel

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30-Nov-2020 18:51:22

XSlay4DeathX
Mar Member 2007

XSlay4DeathX

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FiFi LaFeles said :
It seems to me we are hell bent on merely replacing one form of pollution with another, and one form of using world resources with another. But trying to kid ourselves "We dun gud".

Trust me this is how the mind works and how events unfold. "What people think is better is actually worse off as the world wants us to fail" <--- also why the best doctors can't afford to go to school, world places everyone where they are weakest to avoid fast advancements in technology etc, now covid 19 is crippling our systems. <---And even those choices were bad for same reasons sadly.

nuclear power if expanded too much is death for 90%+ in 400 years Appox <---it has too much risks that can't be cleaned up even in 200 years.

^it's bound to happen, reason the world is now attacking us, covid 19 is only phase 1 sadly. Too many do these things/choices to save $$$ not thinking about the lives lost, whatever happens will happen, i won't stop them from there fate. sadly i value the earth/animals/plants much higher than us given our mistakes....But i also know "good" people exist, sadly this virus is attacking them as well.

it comes down to this, cost, space/land wasted, pollution vs the is this the proper way? if $$$ is the goal then yes, if population/lives are the goal then no.....sadly some forms of pollution should be limited, but nah everyone mass created these things, world is changing and not for the better, punishments are now being rolled out.

My soul bleeds from how people live today when i know things can be designed way better, best to limit battery usage, no idea how or if they can be recycled etc but when you map out the volumes of waste for just you, those batteries take up a lot of space and i'm only one person using them when i have to, i use plug in devices more. <---that X everyone else :/ <--that for everything just alarms me.

30-Nov-2020 19:20:42

XSlay4DeathX
Mar Member 2007

XSlay4DeathX

Posts: 2,634 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Joel said :
^ I think that avenue is being explored, to have a empty-ish battery be swapped out for a charged battery as a form of refuelling. But I think right now the focus is more on fast charging in a way that's sustainable and doesn't degrade the battery too quickly.

With having a home charger, you're essentially leaving on a full tank every day with no need to visit a gas station again. If you solely rely on public charging or supercharging like I do, it takes a slight adjustment but not drastically. I can charge my car from 20% up to 80% in about 15-25mins give or take and that's improving and getting quicker too. Prior to this I'd fill up at Costco and I'd usually be there for 10/15mins depending on how busy it is anyway. At least now I can chill and watch YouTube, Netflix or play some games on the in-car screen.

On road trips you tend to have chargers strategically placed across the country and located next to travel stops with WiFi, washrooms, food etc and you just time it when you'd stop for a washroom or food break anyway.

If it's that fast, depending on battery location it could take about same time to change it, i was thinking they needed 1h+ to charge, still even at 10mins i wouldn't want to get stuck in a line up.

30-Nov-2020 19:25:48

Joel
Feb
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2005

Joel

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A home charger is a slower charge rate so you're looking at a few hours which is why they're designed/intended to be used overnight when you're not using the car and to have the car plugged into it whenever the car isn't being used.

Supercharging on the other hand is MUCH faster and they're still looking at ways to increase speed.
Joel

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30-Nov-2020 19:34:11

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