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Is free speech important?

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Kopaka
Dec Member 2023

Kopaka

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Nexus Origin said :
I don't agree with the concept of "hate speech" as people seem to define it as whatever they like.

Don't agree with immigration policy? Hate speech!
Citing policing statistics about a specific group? Hate speech!
Criticizing potentially dangerous ideologies? Hate speech!


I see where you're coming from though, even though I don't agree with the term "hate speech".

Generally, I believe the concept is that "hate speech" causes hate.

The problem is that this is a vague definition involving extremely vague pieces.

First, what is hate? A strong dislike to me seems different from hate. Fear also isn't hate. Neither is aversion, if you ask me. Just because I'd prefer to avoid watching gory movies doesn't mean I hate them. Hate isn't exactly something that has an agreed-upon definition.

Second, correlation does not prove causation, for anyone who hasn't heard that before. Two things may be very closely related but that doesn't mean one causes the other. In other words, hate speech being more commonly uttered around and by hateful people doesn't prove that the words are what causes the hatred. It could be the other way around, or there could be some other underlying cause for both things which is not discovered.

All in all I definitely agree. The phrase "hate speech" is far too amorphous to be useful in any meaningful way. It is something to be postulated about and perhaps on rare occasion for one friend to suggest to another friend that what he is saying might be "hateful", but in actual practice, outlawing "hate speech" is extremely irresponsible. You have to realize how those laws are actually going to be used.

27-Sep-2018 03:10:22

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

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of course free speech is important.


everyone has different views everyone should be able to voice them.

just like everyone has the right to not agree with that opinion.

its when people tell others to shut up about their beliefs but think its a breech on their own when they get told to shut up
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27-Sep-2018 07:52:30

Kopaka
Dec Member 2023

Kopaka

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Tenebri said :
of course free speech is important.


everyone has different views everyone should be able to voice them.

just like everyone has the right to not agree with that opinion.

its when people tell others to shut up about their beliefs but think its a breech on their own when they get told to shut up

In principle I agree but the sad reality is that the public airspace has only so much room. When one person is speaking loudly in an area, other people cannot use the same airspace to talk to one another as easily. As such, speech is a very capable "weapon" to be used to "attack" others ability to use their own speech.

And so: freedom of speech is fantastic when each person respects the rights of others to speak as well. It is not so fantastic when one person dominates a conversation and insists they must not be silenced, even if it is only so that someone else can have a say too.

28-Sep-2018 02:47:01

RIPanda

RIPanda

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The thing about "freedom of speech" and like, the internet is.. well.. the internet is mostly written or if not written, produced... And they're different.

Why u say something, everyone can ignore u for a moment and forget about it a few mins later. If u put it up on the internet for people to look at whenever they want, over and over, again and again, they wont forget it, and everyone wants to kill u - even if it is just a joke.

But alex jones is not a comedian.

He's representing ridiculous things. He pretends like he's in a war zone or idk what. I don't live anywhere near him, he lives in crazy town. He's a fat, drug addict, hater, trying to sell me health food, that lives in crazy town. He doesn't represent me.

U know how many times I've been muted on runescape???

I counted...
893487789278739874 times 723094 times.


I'm funny tho! Idc if they mute haters. Sometimes children have to sit in the corner and be quite for a minute and once they stop being a hater, maybe get to talk again. 6/2(1+2)=
6/2*1(1+2)=

NEIN!

28-Sep-2018 09:27:56

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,133 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kopaka said :
Tenebri said :
of course free speech is important.


everyone has different views everyone should be able to voice them.

just like everyone has the right to not agree with that opinion.

its when people tell others to shut up about their beliefs but think its a breech on their own when they get told to shut up

In principle I agree but the sad reality is that the public airspace has only so much room. When one person is speaking loudly in an area, other people cannot use the same airspace to talk to one another as easily. As such, speech is a very capable "weapon" to be used to "attack" others ability to use their own speech.

And so: freedom of speech is fantastic when each person respects the rights of others to speak as well. It is not so fantastic when one person dominates a conversation and insists they must not be silenced, even if it is only so that someone else can have a say too.


i agree like 80% of that.

yes if one person has speakers and one other only has his voice sure. its unfair to an extent. but the guy only with voice can move. iadding the public airspace makes it rather pedantic, in a broad question of "is free speech important?"
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28-Sep-2018 19:21:45

Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

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Kopaka said :
In principle I agree but the sad reality is that the public airspace has only so much room. When one person is speaking loudly in an area, other people cannot use the same airspace to talk to one another as easily. As such, speech is a very capable "weapon" to be used to "attack" others ability to use their own speech. I wholeheartedly disagree with speech being a weapon.

My speakers could drown out anyone speaking, and probably cause pain and possible damage. They can be used as a weapon. My words, aren't a weapon.

I really hate when people equate speech to violence. They are not equal in any way, but equating speech to violence gives them the "reasoning" that if you say something they disagree with or are offended by, they can respond with physical violence because your speech was violence. And this is completely wrong.
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29-Sep-2018 01:09:24

Kopaka
Dec Member 2023

Kopaka

Posts: 3,578 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nexus Origin said :
I wholeheartedly disagree with speech being a weapon.

My speakers could drown out anyone speaking, and probably cause pain and possible damage. They can be used as a weapon. My words, aren't a weapon.

I really hate when people equate speech to violence. They are not equal in any way, but equating speech to violence gives them the "reasoning" that if you say something they disagree with or are offended by, they can respond with physical violence because your speech was violence. And this is completely wrong.
The reason I put the words "weapon" and "attack" in quotes is because I am not using those words in the literal sense at all. I don't consider speech violent, however I would not say that speech is incapable of instigating violence.

As for being offended, that doesn't matter to me as much, but if one person shouts another down then the first is unable to use their own speech and that is why I say that freedom of speech needs to be utilized respectfully. Freedom of speech is great but not when it obliterates someone else's freedom of speech.

Just look at all the public talks given by controversial speakers on the right. They almost always have to wrestle protestors away from the stage because they will start shouting in unison to drown out the speaker. It's just not the right way to use your free speech if it's to silence someone else. Goes against the spirit of free speech.

29-Sep-2018 01:53:00

Nexus Origin

Nexus Origin

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Yes, I absolutely agree; you should never use your free speech to shut down someone else's free speech.

You have every right to, but that doesn't mean you should.

It's common civility rules (that some don't seem to understand).
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29-Sep-2018 02:33:39

Oss SpyV2

Oss SpyV2

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Nexus Origin said :
Yes, I absolutely agree; you should never use your free speech to shut down someone else's free speech.

You have every right to, but that doesn't mean you should.

It's common civility rules (that some don't seem to understand).

I wouldn't call that shutting down free speech - calling someone an idiot for saying stupid shit isn't silencing them, you're just saying something.
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04-Oct-2018 01:21:37

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,133 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Oss SpyV2 said :
Nexus Origin said :
Yes, I absolutely agree; you should never use your free speech to shut down someone else's free speech.

You have every right to, but that doesn't mean you should.

It's common civility rules (that some don't seem to understand).

I wouldn't call that shutting down free speech - calling someone an idiot for saying stupid shit isn't silencing them, you're just saying something.

i agree

every ideology has the right to be challenged.
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04-Oct-2018 07:58:40

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