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Holo Queen

Holo Queen

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some notes that I've jotted down:-

-remove veteran cape msg/let us turn it off. why do i care if some total stranger not even on my homeworld gets it. as it is, broadcasts are turned off

-material cache->make material cache in digsite permanent under certain conditions (pylon, osseus etc). silly for ppl to keep hopping worlds cos depleted, its not fun and its rather pointless since the skill has been out for a good while now

-convert minigame/dnd currency to thaler and let that be the global mini/dnd currency -penguin points/runespan/idk what else, these are the 2 i have lots of points and I do like penguins, but its pointless if you don't need xp or gp

-all shops restock at reset-noticed feather packs/meat packs have some kind of replenishment schedule. takes 2 days to restock feather packs

-add search to slayer codex
-golden roses-increase drop rate/transmute rose to golden roses
-remove useless minigames
-find some better use for battlestave
-bowstring on portable crafter pls
-convert loyalty points to runecoins or do something with loyalty program
-convert premier token to runecoins/bond->i have been on premier (not on this account obviously) since it was first started and I have 10 premier tokens and everything has been unlocked.

12-Mar-2022 11:28:44

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Holo Queen said :

-remove useless minigames


Whats your definition of "useless minigames"?

Holo Queen said :

-convert loyalty points to runecoins or do something with loyalty program


These were changed a while back for a reason and i dont see them ever reverting it.

They have said though they plan on reworking the program at some point.
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

12-Mar-2022 12:24:22 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2022 12:25:12 by Draco Burnz

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Draco is quite correct. What classifies as a "useless" minigame?

The Burthrope Games stuff has had probably no visitors in a while and there is literally nothing to be gained from it other than social interaction.

The Tzhaar fight pit (pvp) doesn't do anything other than have players fight. No real item rewards besides tokkul, and even that is earned faster just killing Tzhaar.
Castle Wars rewards are almost purely cosmetic at this state (pre-eoc a few of the rewards like the faithful shield had a slight use)

Some minigames have had chunks of their item rewards eclipsed by other items (why use a sacred clay pickaxe when I can smith better ones)

Even then, you have minigames which simply suffer from no one playing them.

If those are the criteria, than just about every minigame would need to be removed ... and becomes a better quest of which minigames are left that would even be mildly relevant?

Cabbage Face Punch and The Flashpowder Factory can at least be solo'd.

12-Mar-2022 19:16:58

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Keep in mind, I'm actually in favor of paring down "dead content".
- Heist
- Burth Games Room
- Conquest
- TzHaar Fight pit
- Fishing Trawler
- Ranging Guild minigames
These simply need to go
I almost put Fist of Guthix in this category as well

Others like
- Trouble Brewing
- Stealing Creation
- Soul Wars
- Pest Control
- Great Orb Project
These need to have the number of players needed to start reduced to 1. At least people could actually do them if they want. If a group wants in? Sure, the activities can support it.

A few like Clan Wars, Rated Clan Wars, and Castle Wars, I'm on the fence about since PvP isn't what it once was.

Mage Arena in the Wildy probably just needs something else done to it like moving to the Mage Training Arena and casting the spell 100 times on a training dummy.

Most of these are not "rework like Barbarian Assault in 2014". A few of these are just ninja fixes. Others are just the painful admission the content needs to go .... but removing a minigame is a massive undertaking on its own.

Rat Pits took weeks to remove the code and reuse it.
The Duel Arena probably took like 4-6 months to recode AND do the graphical rework.

12-Mar-2022 19:24:41 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2022 19:36:50 by Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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For removing a minigame, you've got a slew of issues.

Duel Arena for example didn't have any in game items associated to it (As compared to something like Trouble Brewing with lots of cosmetics or Fist of Guthix with an array of awards).
Mobilizing Armies, devs had to move a lot of the rewards to Divination to allow players to make things like the resource locators.
Rat Pits still needed to give players a mechanic to change their cat into the various other types of cats (ie: Wily)

Next you have the issue of the former area.
Something like Heist or the Burth Games Room won't have any major impact on the global map since they are in their own separate little off the map areas. They just remove the entryway to the area.

The Tzhaar PvP are for example would require "some" graphical rework.

When you had stuff like Mobilizing Armies and Duel Arena, you had a major investment in graphical assets to remove or change them. Thus something like Castle Wars would be the next pain in the rear due to the graphical requirements to do something with it .... even to "repurpose it".

12-Mar-2022 19:34:56

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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If I wanted to make an argument for a ninja strike on minigames for skilling

- reduce minigames to allow for only needing 1 player to start
This would encourage some like Trouble Brewing and Stealing Creation to be an "alternative training method" for players without having to rely on groups.
As mentioned, the minigames would need to be
- Trouble Brewing -various skills
- Stealing Creation - bxp in various skills
- Soul Wars - combat/slayer (could also now add Avatars to Soul Reaper)
- Pest Control - combat
- Great Orb Project - runecrafting

- Buff the XP to Trouble Brewing
again, XP rates are horrendous. XP also isn't targeted to any one skill. But at least making it viable as a training method should be considered

- Remove Fishing Trawler or rework into a different D&D (ie: gold sink with options between XP vs Fishing Catch ... such as pay Murphy to hire a good crew to maximize catch or hire a scrub crew and he gives you more XP on the back end from his days of fishing)

- Allow Great Orb Project to also count as a monthly RC D&D where players can try to do a once thru to reach a point total on orbs for each altar. If you hit it, you get a chunk of RC XP equal to like a Huge Prismatic Star.
Might help to allow both to GOP and Runespan award Esteem instead of GOP Tokens to get rid of a currency

- Soul Wars - add in more Slayer Creatures after Jellies. Have them award more soul fragments per. now it becomes another area higher level slayers can justify taking part. maybe take the chance to include Spiritual Guardians from Dungeoneering to roam around

12-Mar-2022 19:50:36

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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- Stealing Creation - award XP for actually gathering and processing items during a game. also buff the bxp from the reward shop (Also consider just making the tools and armor cosmetic overrides at this point)

- Impling Hunting - room to buff the XP and add in newer implings (ie: Invention Impling)

- Shades of Morton - allow the temple to award XP in Construction Or Crafting

- Sawmill Training Method - allow the player to toggle at Woodcutting or Construction (woodcutting rate would stay the same, but construction would be comparable to Priff Harps)

- All Fired Up - buff the Firemaking XP for the beacons (it's in the wildy and supposed to be high risk) .... and while at it ... let the inferno adze be augmentable or buff it up to be almost equal to the Crystal Hatchet (T92 Firemaking and lots of quests vs what it takes to make the Crystal Hatchet ... check the req's for both before you judge ... keep in mind ... we also have same tier augmented vs unaugmented tools .... just look at all of the pickaxes and mattocks)

12-Mar-2022 19:51:36 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2022 20:02:00 by Deltaslug

Mel 624
Dec Member 2021

Mel 624

Posts: 744 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm very much not in favour of removing content unless it absolutely has to be removed, which is what happened to Rat Pits, Duel Arena and Mobilising Armies. Reworking content is always better.

In terms of reworking the skill focused minigames/D&Ds for skilling QoL, the multiplayer versions should remain rather than be replaced if single player versions are added. That way the original group activity aspect would remain while still being playable any time.

As I've touched on before I think the sawmill has potential to be reworked into a guild for either construction or woodcutting, possibly both.

All Fired Up could potentially have a full firemaking xp outfit. I'm not sure if expanding the rewards beyond that and the beacon xp would be feasible but it'd be nice to have more reason to do it after getting the adze.

Fishing Trawler can probably be reworked rather than replaced. I don't have much experience playing it but it seems like the problems with it are the risk of getting kicked from not having anything to do to maintain activity, how overwhelming it can be when too many things are happening too fast for the players, having to bring your own items and having better, more reliable and less work intensive ways of getting what the game is offering.

The activity issue could be fixed by replacing the activity bar with scaling player rewards on contribution points or something from doing things on the ship. The items issue could be either by providing them per game with stackable rope or the ability to store what you have left over with Murphy. Making a solo run more viable with adjustable difficulty would likely help too. The choice of xp or fish could be added to the game in its current state.

While I don't agree with turning GoP into a monthly D&D, consolidating both RC guild related currencies and allowing some flexibility in which RCing activity players earn it through may be a good idea. It'd help with players who find runespan too slow. How to block a forum user

Death And Taxes: An Analysis

12-Mar-2022 21:58:46

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Mel
The counter to the counterpoint is the coding.
A lot of the minigames that are having the bigger issues were released prior to 2012. Most prior to 2009. So you're looking at old code stacked on top of old code. (the cliche of spaghetti code).
It's partially why I touched on the suggestions that I did rather than a Duel Arena scale rework in the hopes that another smaller change would work "well enough" and "quickly enough" without having to invest that much into it.
But ofc, without having seen the code, for all I know, my suggestions would be more code intensive than trying to full on rework it.

The other factor to consider is Jagex has typically avoided "best in slot" items via minigames for years now.
Cosmetics? sure.
XP? sure.
Most of the minigame rewards either peak at around Level 75 gear or Level 50 skilling tools (mostly). That's pretty subpar in today's game meta.

So you may as well do D&D or open skilling method instead of minigames.

With D&D's, devs can be somewhat generous because you can only do it like once or twice a day, a week, or per month.
True, you can keep killing trolls all you want in a safe space in Troll Invasion, keep mining stars for mining xp, or keep trying to get the divination outfit pieces from Caches. But you won't get the big gp or xp reward after the cap.
Others like Demon Flash Mobs and Goblins are just RNG for the good rewards.

Fishing Trawler's issues aren't simply the limits of the activity bar.
The XP pay out is low.
The fish reward output is relatively low compared to actually fishing these days..
The platform released in 2018 removed the novelty of manta rays and sea turtles.
On top of outdated graphics.
Hence why I proposed a PoP-esque send Murphy out once a month to get fish or get XP.
Even if you exclude the XP aspect, the clunkiness of the UI and randomness of issues and water filling ... it's not exactly "fun" to do anymore.

12-Mar-2022 22:47:03 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2022 22:49:34 by Deltaslug

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