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Enhancing Combat and PVP

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Noxious Vex
Oct Member 2023

Noxious Vex

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I see a few concerns with this concept.

I understand you want to have the attacks balance out similar to equilibrium but dramatically, and with 100% accuracy you'll never miss.
so basically what your saying is once the meta is found, the player will be ultimately unbeatable because they are guaranteed to hit specified amounts per ability with very little variation.


I feel like this wouldn't exactly help the PvP Revitalization.
However , that being said I will admit your onto something that The PvP Combat System would need reworked entirely.
with Tier 95 taken into consideration. It shouldn't be physically possible for a Player to take a player out within 0.6 Seconds.

In theory your suggestion has valid concerns but I believe your onto something into the right direction if you really want to Revitalize the Wilderness.
My only other concern is the development time this would require would need some serious calculation and consideration before introducing.

If a change to PvP was to take affect, it really should be pre-released into a Open Beta to prevent issues and tested in both Free to Play and Membership with all abilities.
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11-Feb-2022 21:25:59

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

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It's hard to know exactly how it would play out tbh. It would need extensive beta testing.
You need to take into consideration the other variables as well - abilities used and the skill level of the opponent. It won't be as simple as doing the exact same thing with each opponent to get the exact same result. There will still be a great deal of variation.
I'm sure that shields would get more usage in PVP as a result as well.

Timing of defensive abilities will be more critical, as you'll no longer rely or hope that your opponent simply hits a 0. Effort = result rather than RNG = result.

The current strategies and combinations would still be valid, but made more consistent.
My goal is to make PVP less RNG reliant and more skill based.

I think a level of RNG can be reasonable, but at the moment it has too much weighting IMO.
Stoic n Vain said :
Always hitting the exact same amounts will probably become monotonous. Perhaps having just a small amount of RNG would remove that monotony. A variation of up to 20% would be alright, so in the case of wild magic, it could have a damage variation of 123-143% ability damage per hit.
But like I said, hard to know exactly how it would play out until we try it in practice. Perhaps even a little bit more RNG than what I suggested there. 110-150% for example.
Thanks very much for your feedback, Noxious Vex! I understand where you're coming from and you could be right, it's hard to know.

Thanks for seeing that I'm on to something and yes, absolutely agree with the idea of Open Beta. I wouldn't have it any other way.

You might like my "the new wild" thread too!
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

18-Feb-2022 12:04:33 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2022 12:16:43 by Stoic n Vain

PvPMatter
Apr Member 2023

PvPMatter

Posts: 171 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am 100% feeling this vibe on a better PVP experience.

My first thought process is allowing us to have more health, with this it will allow us to use our ability's on one another in a more intelligent but relaxing environment. During a fight encounter there are multiple ways for it to end almost instantly, this can make things very frustrating and overall just not fun for the player.

Looking at castle wars, this could allow one user to possibly take on multiple players at the same time, waiting for their team mates to arrive, help and battle.

I am half and half on this but, to allow us to use our regular cosmetic appearance for castle wars. This allows us to bring our creativity to the battle field, lowering the possible causes for people not participating in PVP content. I understand the concept behind the purity of using our regular gear, but in my opinion Jagex does not encourage the concept of a pure RuneScape, so they shouldn't take it out on content that is not even active.

~~~~For thread creator

- I do not agree with your 100% accuracy during PVP, this gives less viability to classes, gear and overall battle play through. I can see us eventually just having the only thought process of *use ability's and kill each other*

- I'm not to aware of the calculations for special attacks, but my more health opinion may attribute to solving or complimenting this situation.

- Reading on, it seems like things get very complicated with the accuracy situation. I can't give to much of an opinion on it as it seems as though a lot of work from you was put towards it and I haven't really broken down what we currently have, what you want and if it is actually worth doing.

- I like the daily challenge with minigames aspect. *once they confront they may need to do a bit of a revamp on PVP*

- I do not believe the current familiars we have in game are worth having in an PVP encounter, they are just a familiar that deals damage, there's nothing special with this.
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13-Mar-2022 21:53:47

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

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Hey ShallPreval, thank you for commenting.

First of all, I think you'd enjoy my "the new wild" thread. Highly recommend you read it.
Not really sure how more health would play out, it would need to be beta tested.
The idea of KOs has been a fairly attractive concept in runescape's PVP history, so I think you'd have some players opposing your idea there.

The main concern with allowing cosmetics is that you're unable to determine what gear your opponent is wearing. They could visibly be wearing melee power gear, but actually be wearing magic tank gear. This could easily determine the outcome of a PVP battle. I think people would abuse this feature to be misleading in this way, so I don't personally support.

Regarding your response to my 100% accuracy idea:
Stoic n Vain said :
Damage reduction, block chance, armour values, defence level and defence boosting effects (eg def pots) will all merge into one dynamic calculation: damage reduction
This means that all gear will still be valid/ taken into consideration in PVP. Rather than benefitting you with block chance, it benefits you in terms of damage reduction. Since players will have more damage reduction, players will take less damage. Armour will be vital in PVP.

This is my personal stance about the classes:
Stoic n Vain said :
The combat triangle advantage will no longer be based on RNG. I like this. I don’t like the current “rock-paper-scissors” RNG model in PVP. I wouldn’t mind if the combat triangle was discontinued in PVP. Abilities should give the classes each their own unique niches and advantages, not RNG.


Familiars can help a lot in PVP situations if you know which to use. Some can drain your opponent's adrenaline or prayer, unequip opponent's items, stun them, provide damage reduction for you and finally provide additional DPS.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

14-Mar-2022 22:32:51

PvPMatter
Apr Member 2023

PvPMatter

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I don't think that player's would be that concerned about not being able to 1hitko other players if Jagex actually took stride towards reviving PVP.

~ About cosmetic Appearances

I understand, I didn't look at it that way. Perhaps allowing your teammates to see your cosmetic items and your enemy's to see your actual gear? hopefully it wouldn't be to difficult to implement, I think players would take this as interesting.

~ Accuracy

I'm still not a big fan on this, I feel as though it's misleading in some sense and it should be more on the point of, do something more productive to make your enemy suffer. So if you splash you splash, you know you have to do something as you aren't doing any damage, low damage instead of splashes can be looked at as bad RNG.

~ Familiars

That could be quite an energy consumer for a player to try to concept what is happening during a battle. Going against multiple enemy's, it sounds like you'd pretty much be completely drained of your creativity.
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15-Mar-2022 07:52:06

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

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You never know. The thrill of getting a KO can be quite exciting.
In fact, I think that's the main goal of pking on OSRS :P

Possibly, that could work.

All good, it was just a concept to minimize RNG. I know it's unconventional.
Blocking a hit is also cool, but I'd much prefer "blocked" hits to be a result of skill, rather than a roll of the dice. That's where defensive abilities are awesome and could work to counter a 100% hit chance model. Perhaps they'd need a few more dodge and parry type abilities.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean in your familiar paragraph, but I think what you mean is if a player was in multi-combat and had multiple familiars attacking them, all with different effects, they'd be too overwhelmed trying to focus on what was going on to formulate any strategy. Is that accurate?
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

16-Mar-2022 00:56:20

Reaper Ghost
Jul Member 2021

Reaper Ghost

Posts: 672 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This has huge potential to be the best update in Runescape history.

What I love about it


--All items lost on death

--All items drop on death even untradeable items. Yes that fully augmented perked gear and those overloads can be picked up

--Players can't teleport out

--Single and multiway toggle's return

--Players can't hop worlds or lobby

--20 second immunity after a kill

What needs to change to make this update Great


Don't instance it, leave the map as is although an expansion could be added to it beyond it's current size with new areas, rewards, and bosses. This minimizes the coding for the change and keeps familiarization and nostalgia for veterans. Hopping the ditch will still lead to safety.

Skulls should remain though more cosmetic now. You get one when you aggro a player. This will give a clear indicator of who your attacker is and be some great nostalgia.

Players with skulls can be attacked regardless of single way toggle if the player they engage doesn't deal any damage for 10 seconds or greater.

20 second immunity should be granted any time a player kills all other players that are engaged in combat with them. During this time a player loses their skull.

The banks should remain the same, this update doesn't require it's own instance and gear to be good and there is no reason to worry about a new banking system or players losing bank in the wild if everyone knows they lose everything on death.

The obelisks and all teleports into wilderness areas including lodestone should remain exactly as they are. The difference will be that teleports of this nature will be forbidden while engaged in combat.

Wilderness Achievements are fine as is. Maybe remove them from comp cape req for players that feel "forced to do them" but they should remain for runescore and there should be room for more achievements to be added to this area. Runescore is competitive not manditory.
Death is not the opposite of life, but in fact a part of it.

May Guthix bring you balance.

30-Mar-2022 02:37:08 - Last edited on 30-Mar-2022 02:47:12 by Reaper Ghost

Reaper Ghost
Jul Member 2021

Reaper Ghost

Posts: 672 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think a ton of what you have here is seriously good material
......but the whole only using what you earn in the area and an additional points and rewards system is a bit far, the less change to what players already know about the wild and how it works while simultaneously revitalizing it and balancing the risks and rewards in it the better.

Personally I feel like the instancing for population control is a great aspect and if you and I maybe teamed up we might be able to really come up with something seriously good.

How I would instance it is

1v1 worlds
multiplayer worlds
high risk worlds for both 1v1 and multiplayer


but I wouldn't create an entire new system and instance of the current wilderness with all new resources and areas but rather save that for an expansion to the current map that I have been working on for many years but never put into suggestion yet cause i'm not done.....

I call that part the "Deep Wilderness".......some new bosses, skilling areas including the deep abyss, advanced wilderness agility course and tormented hunting grounds. I've got tons of notebooks and files stored with these ideas......maybe we can help each other.....I support at least several parts of this I"ve vocalized

Mandrith reclaim is a big one

I'm not for the every time is with all new items you gain in the all new area as this majorly distracts players from the rest of the game and nearly forces you to camp these new instanced worlds permanently and entirely give up on ever not pvping in runescape again just to enjoy when you do
Death is not the opposite of life, but in fact a part of it.

May Guthix bring you balance.

30-Mar-2022 03:02:46 - Last edited on 02-Apr-2022 02:53:10 by Reaper Ghost

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

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Hey Reaper Ghost, thanks a lot for your comments!
Also thank you for loving a lot of my ideas :)

I think you've misunderstood and also posted about my the new wild thread.
The new wild isn't a replacement/revitalization of the current wilderness, it's an addition.
The current wilderness stays the same.

There were many reasons why I chose to instance it, off the top of my head, some of those reasons were:

To funnel players from all worlds, so that PVP encounters are drastically increased.
To leave the current wilderness undisturbed.
To create an entirely new type of survivalist/every man for himself type of gameplay.
To make it impossible for a player to lose their items from the main game.
To have an entirely independent and old-style economy.
(players must obtain the items within the instance).
Items gained are saved on your account, so you can log out, play normal runescape and return to the new wild whenever - and have your hard earned items still there in your "the new wild" bank.

I disagree with the idea that someone with a skull should be able to be piled.
Single / multi worlds are the way to go. Either that, or a single/multi toggle.

My idea was no teleports, but I don't mind if they are only restricted in combat.

I didn't want to create new achievements in the new wild, because I don't want to force anyone to engage in the content. It's mostly for fun and thrills - but additionally some rewards as well.

As mentioned previously, this isn't meant to be familiar. I don't want to imitate the current wilderness. This is "the new wild". Not the familiar wild :P
People are more greatly rewarded for their ability to survive, and also, their ability to fight as well. That's where the point system shines, in my opinion.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

03-Apr-2022 07:24:17

Roleutrio
Jun Member 2020

Roleutrio

Posts: 1,784 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think it would be interesting to introduce some "elite" combat skills, which requires lvl 80 in specific skills. This would allow a second revolution in combat and PVM by using new "classes" or "roles" during group encounters (but also solo in some cases).

Examples:
1. Healing (Monk Class)
- Requirements: Lvl 80 in Constitution, Defence, Prayer and Magic
- Move some support spells/abilities under this skill
- New abilities to buff and protect groups of players during group bossing or slayer
- New use for some gear and weapons
- Act as a tank, support or both during fights (low DPS but essential in new high-end group encounters)
2. Warfare (Tactician Class)
- Requirements: Lvl 80 in Construction, Crafting, Smithing and Firemaking
- Secondary requirements to use items: Strength, Magic, Ranged, Attack and Summoning
- Prepare (artillery) items for group encounters
- Move dwarven cannon and upgrades etc. under this skill
- Act as debuffer and extra DPS during group encounters and/or slayer
- New uses for other skills such as fletching, invention, archeology, farming and herblore
* Fletching = Ammo for artillery
* Invention = Preparing / building machines or machine parts, discover blueprints
* Archeology = discover, repair and re-use or re-purpose old warfare materials
* Farming = Farm poisonous or other type of damaging plants for organic warfare
* Herblore = Use case for new potions and Bomb vials (ammo)

03-Jul-2022 00:04:11

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