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Necromancy as a skiller?

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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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H 1 L D A said :
Skillers have some reasons to worry about bosses.

> Catering to PvMers and lorehounds over other groups (Skillers, Minigamers, Pkers) has given more development time to those former players than the latter, and it could result in content that otherwise makes sense for the latter to access to be blocked by dangerous areas or combat in quests.

> Bosses regularly drop common loot in larger and larger quantities, which devalues the items. Skillers have to actually gather or craft those items much more slowly, so by sunk time, too much supply hurts these player’s disproportionately.


In that case fewer bosses in RS3 benefits skillers. Thank you for agreeing with me on RS3 is very friendly to skillers.

08-Jun-2023 00:37:19

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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The concern isn't just "quantity of bosses", Dilbert.

With development time, the measure would be how many skilling updates each year versus PvM updates. Even if we say that RS3 has a low number of bosses (which is not necessarily what I said) if they release more of them than they do skilling content, the point is moot.

With common drops, literally none of that has anything to do with the amount of bosses in the game. It's all about how ridiculously high the amount of common loot can be dropped in that makes it dirt cheap, which makes skillers make less money for producing the same item at a much lower volume. Some items should primarily be obtained through skilling, not via bossing because the items come in bulk.

These are legitimate concerns. If RS3 is so mindful of its skiller pure community, and you're using what I said as an example of that... then there's some room for improvement.
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08-Jun-2023 01:33:04

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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H 1 L D A said :
The concern isn't just "quantity of bosses", Dilbert.

With development time, the measure would be how many skilling updates each year versus PvM updates. Even if we say that RS3 has a low number of bosses (which is not necessarily what I said) if they release more of them than they do skilling content, the point is moot.

With common drops, literally none of that has anything to do with the amount of bosses in the game. It's all about how ridiculously high the amount of common loot can be dropped in that makes it dirt cheap, which makes skillers make less money for producing the same item at a much lower volume. Some items should primarily be obtained through skilling, not via bossing because the items come in bulk.

These are legitimate concerns. If RS3 is so mindful of its skiller pure community, and you're using what I said as an example of that... then there's some room for improvement.


RS3 spent balanced amount of time on skilling and pvm content. What's the "concerns" there? Besides, the person I replied to clearly stated he didn't touch combat for over a decade and won't be participating in Necromancy and yet they talked about RS3 not having too many high level bosses. This is (1) not true and (2) even if true, it only means RS3 is great to skillers and this is a very good thing for Runescape games that are based on skills.

08-Jun-2023 02:42:07

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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This is why we've seen much growth in the number of high level bosses over recent years, yet seen other aspects of the game decline to dead content.
- A Cole, page 2.

---

1. A Cole is using the words "much growth" in reference to the quantity of bosses here, and you are claiming in the above post that he believes RS3 has "not too many high level bosses" This would indicate that you read the exact opposite thing he said.

2. A Cole introduces a concern I didn't even call out in my list - in that too many high level bosses and their drop tables could render other content, particularly those accessible by a Lvl 3 combat account, dead. This is again, not strictly held to the quantity of the bosses we are able to fight, but also the quantity of dropped items and the cost for a skiller to create or gather them.

3. Those two concerns I already listed are as follows, More bossing content (or content that has combat level requirements, such as quests) directly impacts the amount of new content a Lvl 3 can access. Also, that boss drops with high quantities can quickly devalue common skilling products, which hurts skillers disproportionately economically because they are unable to buy in on fighting the boss for equivalent return and the process of obtaining those items is much slower.

This is an area Jagex is seemingly aware of and deserves -some- praise. It was Mod Jack that spent a fair amount of time explaining how the Garden of Kharid update contained an update to boss and slayer drop tables that swapped out Herbs for their seeds, which encourages more players to actually farm. It also means that as recently as roughly half a year ago, Jagex would see areas where this "balance of skilling and bossing content" could be improved upon.
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08-Jun-2023 04:08:47

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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^^
Thank you for quoting the entire sentence from the person I replied to:

" This is why we've seen much growth in the number of high level bosses over recent years, yet seen other aspects of the game decline to dead content."


The sentence was written in a relative sense. Obviously we have all the skilling updates the recent years in RS3, far more than bosses. For instance, The new skill Archaeology pushed RS3's revenue growth to 18% or 3 times the number of OSRS, helping Jagex to achieve record revenue. There were no bosses in Archaeology. Obviously we have a lot of great skilling content, and skillers play a huge part in RS3's player driven economy.

Even with a combat skill, skiller can still train and profit from it thoroughly without killing a level 1 Lumbridge rat, let alone high level bosses. Do I really need to tell anybody who actually play RS3 that the last RS3 boss, high level or not, Zamorak, the Lord of Chaos was released almost a year ago?

08-Jun-2023 04:55:37

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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You aren't A Cole, you can't determine what sense he typed that in. The guy in the Necromancy and Old School thread also wasn't speaking in the sense you assumed he was. Maybe let the poster speak for themselves, huh? It'll save yourself from some embarrassment.

You know what's more relevant a stat here than the revenue drivel you copy-paste on every thread to bolster your agenda? Archaeology is over three years old. We have a pretty thorough idea on its successor skills' gameplay loop and loads of other information about what's next in the skills tab. Archaeology probably isn't as new as you are trying to emphasize. If that's the last time a skiller pure got any significant content to interact with (and as the last skill released and one that doesn't involve combat at all - it might very well be) well, I have to again give any skiller who may be a little restless the benefit of the doubt.

Let's see some of the most recent boss releases.

Raksha: 2020
Rex Matriarchs: 2021
Kerapac: 2021
Arch-Glacor: 2021
Croesus: 2021* - (not necessarily relevant, as Level 3's can do this one, I think.)
TzKal-Zuk: 2021
Zamorak: 2022

Two years ago, the game's entire content arc centered around various boss encounters, and Zammy capped off that experience last year. I think it can be argued that PvMers aren't exactly starving for content in the same three years between Archaeology and Necromancy compared to skillers, who needed to do related quests to those bosses to do things like Firemaking and Fletching training with Prehistoric Potterington in some of the skilling releases during that time frame, which would have involved combat.

Necromancy being a combat skill means that three year wait for new accessible skilling content will grow longer for skillers who do it for the number 3 next to their name.
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08-Jun-2023 07:18:14 - Last edited on 08-Jun-2023 07:22:49 by H 1 L D A

CaptKoloth
Feb Member 2008

CaptKoloth

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Dilbert2001 said :
CaptKoloth said :
It will be like being a Prayer Pure. You will no longer be level 3.


Exactly, but how many "prayer pures" are here in all of Jagex's games? At least you and me aren't.

Actually a far more interesting thoughts here... If players are out of "pure" things to do, perhaps Necromancy Pures will be a great idea for them. Pure Necromancer... sounds good, right?


I actually knew two prayer pures. Both eventually broke the pure shortly after they got 99 prayer. They got bored. One was because he wanted to do all the quests. The other because he was basically a pker and got curses and terrorized the wildy.

08-Jun-2023 07:19:22

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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H 1 L D A said :
You aren't A Cole, you can't determine what sense he typed that in. The guy in the Necromancy and Old School thread also wasn't speaking in the sense you assumed he was. Maybe let the poster speak for themselves, huh? It'll save yourself from some embarrassment.


They have already admitted they didn't want to and haven't level combat over a decade, not interested in Necromancy and any combat updates, and not jumping for joy to play them. They typed it, not what I "determined".

08-Jun-2023 16:34:23

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CaptKoloth said :
Dilbert2001 said :
CaptKoloth said :
It will be like being a Prayer Pure. You will no longer be level 3.


Exactly, but how many "prayer pures" are here in all of Jagex's games? At least you and me aren't.

Actually a far more interesting thoughts here... If players are out of "pure" things to do, perhaps Necromancy Pures will be a great idea for them. Pure Necromancer... sounds good, right?


I actually knew two prayer pures. Both eventually broke the pure shortly after they got 99 prayer. They got bored. One was because he wanted to do all the quests. The other because he was basically a pker and got curses and terrorized the wildy.


Similar reasons why ironmen want to de-iron. Players get bored limiting themselves to just a small fragment of a game. I know many pvmers enjoying skilling content like POP and POF, as well as skillers wanting to kill a few low enrage Arch-Glacor and Telos once in a while too.

08-Jun-2023 16:37:42

A  Cole
Nov Member 2003

A  Cole

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*Sigh*

Apparently as a Skiller I'm not allowed to have an opinion on new content that could have had a skilling element.

H 1 L D A has made several good points and has explained them very clearly.

At the end of the day, I came here to say it initially sounded like the concept of Necromancy had the scope to expand into being helpful for skilling, much like Summoning is. It seems like, based on the information we have gained so far, Necromancy isn't going to be useful in skilling - useful in skilling, not the fact that it can be trained by skilling. This is fine. Necromancy is a new combat type, and should be considered as such going forward. This was an issue with Jagex communication, not the update itself.

I wish to see RS do well. I have played this game for a very long time, and if PvM content is what drives more customers to the game, then let's get more PvM content! However, like you said, a pure non-combat skill was released in Archaeology which, by your incorrectly correlated analysis, increased profits by a large margin.

This shows that skilling content is still desired. So why do you come here to say that we're not allowed to suggest skilling content, when it looks like there are reasonable methods of adding skilling content?

Skilling content can push sales up just as easily as PvM content. Concentrating so much on PvM like they have done over previous years has alienated many players. Yes, some skillers are still around, such as myself, but I was predominantly a minigamer. I can't minigame anymore because they're not accessible - and this is the reason why more and more minigamers have left the game completely, which in itself only compounds the problem. This has happened because of PvM over-focus.

I've created a which discusses how Necromancy can be taken into skilling as a separate skill. At least I can't be derided about being a skiller there.


~A~

08-Jun-2023 18:26:57

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