RuneScape Forum Archive | Necro effect on Old School

Feb

2023

BrunoNutto

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First I want to make it clear that I don't play OSRS, so I don't fully understand the motivation of those who do, apart from their obvious nostalgia of RS in 2007 and thereabouts. This is just something that struck me as a possible reason for Jagex to shake up combat with the forthcoming skill Necromancy, rather than having it just for skillers.

If the skill is going to change combat significantly as it seems (at this stage of dev, anyway) is this an attempt to rework EoC in a way that will appeal to OSRS players and perhaps cause them to switch to RS3?

Ofc I'm not saying this is the only reason for it. RS3 getting skill 29 and eventually skill 30 too was always going to happen. But I am suggesting it may be a secondary motivation.

From what I read on the forums OSRS doesn't seem like they're getting much love from Jagex, who seem to regard them as a necessary annoyance, rather than anything else.

02-Jun-2023 11:57:22 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2023 11:58:17 by BrunoNutto

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Nope. OSRS doesn't have EOC, not even a single ability. It won't work in OSRS at all.

In RS3, Necromancy is an expansion of EOC, and the beauty of it is it doesn't reinvent the EOC wheel and rub the existing community the wrong way. However, in OSRS, there isn't remotely a combat system they can build solid foundations on. If OSRS wants to pull off something with just a small sample and benefits of RS3's Necromancy combat style, they will have to at least build up some sort of ability base combat system, even if it is not the full scale EOC, and then they will have to hope the community doesn't oppose it like they hate EOC... but I won't bank on it.

02-Jun-2023 16:19:56

Hguoh

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OSRS has had a necromancy spell book for a while now: the Arceus spell book.

02-Jun-2023 17:33:36

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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Hguoh said :
OSRS has had a necromancy spell book for a while now: the Arceus spell book.

That's one of my points. OSRS has no combat system at all. We can't add something to a non-existing combat system, so all they can do is to add new spells to the existing magic combat style.

RS3's combat is based on the ability based EOC system. It has unlimited extensibilities. OSRS has no combat system. Combat style is all based on the weapon of choice. There is nothing to extend to it, so the RS3 EOC style 4th combat style won't work on OSRS at all. Even if OSRS forces something on the game, players will be very quick to point out it is just new magic spells disguised as a new combat style.

02-Jun-2023 17:57:00

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Is Necromancy trying to update the EoC...-

Short Answer, yes.

The goal for Necromancy is to provide a combat style that exists outside of the existing triangle and functions differently without directly impacting the existing styles. Should this be received with positive feedback from players, you can expect to see the other styles reworked to follow suit. If less than positive, more development time will be spent on making Necromancy itself better before those styles see any change.

...to specifically bring Old Schoolers over to RuneScape 3?

No.

While the update will most likely result in a easier-to-grasp combat system long term, it seems to be the largest change they can make to the Evolution of Combat without making it so invasive that we have another exodus of players like the one that took place during the EoC's launch in 2012, which was cemented when Old School was released shortly after.

The goal is to make existing players have more options when it comes to experiencing higher end combat, be that through the more-easily-seen PvM route, but perhaps laying the groundwork for reviving a PvP scene. Both PvM and PvP in Rs3 can be argued to have too high of a skill floor for the average player to get into. Necromancy, with a much lower chance to splash damage, ever neutral damage taken and received, and relegation of basic abilities into auto-attacks, looks to make the EoC "simpler" without removing the skill ceiling that current players have been able to reach.

It only applies to Old Schoolers in the same way any new skill would. Maybe they log in and decide they like it or not and it draws them to Rs3, but it's not meant to try and kill off OSRS. If it were, this skill is a good 8 or so years too late.

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- July 31st, 2022

02-Jun-2023 19:30:42 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2023 19:31:15 by H 1 L D A

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Old School RuneScape doesn't even have a combat system!

Incorrect.

Old School RuneScape's combat may be as simple as pointing and clicking, and it does have a couple of notable features that are indicative that there is some kind of system in place.

> The combat triangle that exists in both games has always existed.

> There are weapons that have special attacks in both games.

With regards to Necromancy being able to exist in OSRS, it absolutely could exist as a combat style (where the extent of Necromancy in RS3 could just as easily have existed as a similar expansion to the Magic skill such as the Arceuus spellbook!)

In OS, Necromancy could function the same way it does damage-wise, where it doesn't hold any advantages or disadvantages versus the other combat styles. It could have thralls/conjures occasionally spawn when a newly introduced bar fills up after a certain amount of attacks, or the player could click the special attack bar to summon them on demand. Interacting with ritual sites could also provide Necromancy xp, so the skilling aspect could also apply.

The only omissions would likely be uniquely EoC-centric concepts, such as defensive abilities like Bone Shield. Some abilities, like the ability to prolong your thralls/conjures indefinitely, could simply be relegated to an inventory item much like a potion or piece of food.

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02-Jun-2023 19:45:18 - Last edited on 02-Jun-2023 19:45:41 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

^^
I am comparing RS3 and OSRS's combat systems to the video game industry. Without EOC, RS3's combat system will be non-existent comparing to the game industry too.

Any game can call itself a game with excellent systems but whether their customers think so is a very different story. That's why RS2 added EOC.

Similarly, you can call everything a combat style, but the customers think so is again a very different story. If you want to call Arceus spell a combat style, shrug! Be my guest, OSRS already has a "4th combat style", and why not also call "Lunar spell" is their "5th combat style"... Oh wait... Runious Powers will be the "6th combat style". Happy? But I don't think this is what OP thinks, and definitely not the entire game industry thinks, and not even what the OSRS and RS3 teams think.

02-Jun-2023 20:24:51

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

BrunoNutto said :

From what I read on the forums OSRS doesn't seem like they're getting much love from Jagex, who seem to regard them as a necessary annoyance, rather than anything else.

OSRS forumers not thinking they are getting much love from Jagex and RS3 getting a Necromancy skill are two totally different things.

OSRS forumers probably are annoyed by the lack of good OSRS content, not necessarily a good new skill, let alone Necromancy in RS3.

RS3 will roll out Necromancy, an EOC ablity based skill, obviously shows they are aimed to significantly improve the quality of the game to EOC loving players. Rest assured, they welcome OSRS players too, but just as much as bland new playes who haven't played any Runescape games at all.

For OSRS players not liking OSRS anymore, Jagex already has other games for them and not just RS3. That's why they bought other game developers and partnered with others who have established games. Jagex just gives everybody of every needs, including "annoyed" OSRS players a lot of choices.

02-Jun-2023 21:10:26

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

No, you really can't call everything a combat style. For example, Prayer and Summoning only passively deal damage to your target, and a spellbook is just Magic, regardless of which one it is. While I won't claim to be a dictionary, what seems to be on brand for what makes a combat style is something that directly causes damage to the target.

> Melee is hand-to-hand and uses various objects held by the assailants.

> Ranged involves the use of projectiles that are thrown or fired from manufactured weapons.

> Magic involves firing spells.

> Necromancy damages the target with necrotic energy and the undead.

My point, is that Necromancy did not have to be its own combat style or a completely new skill. Old School happens to have a spellbook that illustrates such a point. The concept fits quite nicely into an expansion to the Magic skill. Conversely, there's not really a limitation for Old School adding Necromancy as a separate skill with its own combat style just because it doesn't have abilities. You claimed that there was and that it wouldn't work.

Now, I've read Mod Mark's development blogs on the EoC in order to best understand why it was a thing that was coming into the game back then. There's a lot to unpack there, but I think the thing that withstood the test of time as well as dissent (of which there was a fair amount), is that the EoC allowed for more challenging PvM combat in the future without having to be limited to pathing mechanics or unavoidable damage. The best thing about the Evolution of Combat has been the ability to release new boss content with various challenges that call for more answers than the point-and-click system could reasonably offer.

You're probably right in that Jagex may have felt pressure to compete with the rest of the industry. I think Old School's successes make the team's fears back then seem a bit unsubstantiated, but the influence many aspects of other games that the EoC draws is certainly there.

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02-Jun-2023 21:14:02

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

H 1 L D A said :
While I won't claim to be a dictionary, what seems to be on brand for what makes a combat style is something that directly causes damage to the target.

So you admitted it is just your own definition of a "combat style", not Jagex's, and not some from a dictionary. Good! Jagex, both RS3 and OSRS disagree with you obviously.

Regardless, your definition of a combat style is something that directly causes damage to a target is totally wrong already. We have passive and defensive effects from all combat styles. They don't deal any direct damages.

02-Jun-2023 21:20:53

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Necro effect on Old School