RuneScape Forum Archive | Necro effect on Old School

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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1. That is the first time you specified that players from RS3 got "locked out." If you were trying to say that implicitly, fair - although I can't read your mind nor could I hear you say that. With text, you do have be more specific. I'm not going to retract from calling you a liar, because it wasn't about missing items, and a full percentage point of your player base having to be somewhat lavishly compensated for their inconvenience seems more significant than how you describe it. Furthermore, it's disingenuous to call it a company-wide issue when only RS3 players were locked out for longer than the mere hours the initial downtime occurred.

2. Kieren doesn't provide a very intelligent response in your excerpt, and it sounds way worse out of context here. He's wrong in that a player would have "two main accounts"... The player would just have two accounts after FSW ended, and the one that the player plays the most after that would be the singular "main." There was no need to even entertain the idea of developing a character select system. We've had multiple accounts since the early 2000s just fine. I'm guessing the issue they are citing is that bringing over the same account back into the main game is unnecessary but would probably still happen with a FSW-tagged account and that would lead to issues liked copied data or something else that shouldn't happen - but it probably could have been communicated better.

3.

"We're not trying to get people to double dip here. The point I'm trying to make is that this is about people coming back and joining the game for the first time. Inevitably, some of you are probably going to be interested in wanting to play this and enjoy the experience, but genuinely this is about new people coming to the game and people returning after a long time."

- very important missing context. "Why do you even need a second main account? This update isn't for active players."

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08-Jun-2023 06:54:53 - Last edited on 08-Jun-2023 06:58:09 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

1. Again x 9000! The Login-Logout incident affected Jagex accounts, both RS3 and OSRS players. Do you know why is it called Login-Logout? It is not a RS3 content specific problem. It is a Jagex company-wise login server and dated infrastructure problem. There are no RS3 or OSRS updates involved there. Subsequently, RS3 created content to reward players who are affected by the company-wise incident only as a gesture of good will. Login-Logout leads to the escalation of the Jagex Launcher which is also not any RS3 or OSRS content specific update.

2. Mod Kieran is the lead designer or some fancier title which also means lead designer, of OSRS. You are not the lead designer of OSRS. I believe what Kieran said, and I believe he is more intelligent than most RSOF users. That's why Jagex hired him as the OSRS lead designer, not you or other RSOF users.

3. People coming back and join a Jagex game, are those who are likely attracted by content they can see and feel. People leaving a Jagex game, are on the other hand, those who are likely discouraged by content they can see and feel. Now OSRS players are leaving, apparently because OSRS doesn't appeal them and/or other games like Diablo 4, Rust or whatnots look and feel better to them. If Necromancy looks and feels better than Diablo 4, Rust et al, why should OSRS players sour on them coming back to play RS3 Necromancy?

Please note that there are over 9,000 games in the world, not just RS3 and OSRS. It is all about natural selection. If OSRS players are not happy with what they see and feel in OSRS, and they are going somewhere else, from the perspectives of Jagex and players of their games not named OSRS, should we rather like those players sour on OSRS coming to RS3 or other Jagex games?

08-Jun-2023 16:19:49

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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How many OSRS players found themselves missing data and unable to log in for weeks at a time, resulting in Jagex needing to compensate (because goodness, it was NOT a mere token gesture.) with in game boosts and unique items?

According to the RS Wiki, as well as Jagex themselves, “again times 9000”, 0.

While the initial downtime affected all of Jagex’ servers, OSRS, as in its entire playerbase, experienced a reasonable hours-long wait. 1 percent of RS3 was left out to dry for weeks, and had they not been compensated for that, they would have lost a month of their subscription.

You claimed RS3’s technology was superior. What happened in this instance was that the initial failure was company wide, and then RS3’s tech was further exposed in rather embarrassing fashion, leaving many players (1 percent is a lot.) dissatisfied for weeks

—

You don’t need to tell me you trust Jagex more than you do the rest of the people in your community. The way you post in general suggests you’re nothing but a shill for the company and especially the RS3 team, and that you’re generally disrespectful to anyone who makes a mere suggestion for the game, let alone tries to hold Jagex accountable.

However, like several people you talk to on the forums on a regular basis, you misunderstood Mod Kieran’s point. The reason FSWs required a new account was because it was going to transfer data from the FSW servers to the main game at the end, and there was no. Point. Whatsoever. For players to make an alt for it based on the features Old School’s version of FSWs had. I also think Kieran is generally smart. Between that Q&A and the newspost reveal, Old Schools team repeatedly emphasized they were okay with active players passing on FSW and that it wasn’t like Leagues. That’s not a “technical limitation” so much as it would have been a waste of time.

Nobody is going to be spared from needing to learn how to communicate effectively. Not you, not Jagex.

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- July 31st, 2022

08-Jun-2023 23:33:17

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If you are really familiar with systems and programming and design, there is no reason you don't realize the Login-Logout incident has nothing to do with RS3 or OSRS technology. It is purely old problem with the company-wise login server infrastructure. The mods who came to the livestreams as well as Mod Pips told us the story. They are not the RS3 team. They are the Jagex infrastructure and data science teams, shared by not just RS3 and OSRS, but all other disciplines of Jagex.

The RS3 and OSRS Jmods we often see in livestreams are application developers for their specific games. They have nothing and can have nothing to do with the Jagex login server infrastructure and database. They have everything to do with content updates we get almost weekly though. When there was a missing trapdoor to the Thief's Guild it was the problem of the RS3 team. When there was pathing and dead click bugs after the return of BH, and a QoL update causing 117Scape to fail, it was the problem of the OSRS team.

I don't misunderstand all the OSRS Jmods said. They have a lot of application level problems and Mod Ash said "spaghetti codes", but on the RS3 side, they have been handled ever since 2007 to now on a daily basis. If you think everything is so easy, why don't you make all those suggestions? Why don't OSRS just do things like Clan Citadel, Loot Share, Stealing Creations among a lot of things players have suggested?

08-Jun-2023 23:48:44 - Last edited on 08-Jun-2023 23:49:37 by Dilbert2001

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

In Old School's pretty recently revamped clan system, the only thing they are missing from their Clan Hall is a dance floor and the weekly capping activity. Most of the organizational features were added, there are clan cloaks and vexillums, the Clan Hall is basically a Citadel, clannies have ranks and roles, and so on and so forth.

Other things, like Loot Share and Stealing Creation, are things I would list in the "yet to be polled" category. If they were polled, and passed, I could see them getting into the game at some point. With drops, most people just decide to split or keep.

---

"How many OSRS players found themselves missing data and unable to log in for weeks at a time, resulting in Jagex needing to compensate with in game boosts and unique items?"

If you'll allow me the moment to indulge in praising Jagex here, I watched that livestream. Pips was the only person who could claim he was responsible for everything that was going on company wide, and then the folks that were there to solve the issue (Mod ID0 and co.) The RS3 fonts and music were used because the people who were most affected by this were the small group of RS3 players who were locked out for much longer than a few hours. Furthermore, the other people in the livestream were Mods Hooli, who was doing community work for RS at the time, and Warden.

Warden, the project lead for RS at the time, very clearly was emotionally invested in rectifying the problem. He had to pause to collect himself. This was days after the incident began. It's really hard to imagine the RS3 team wasn't involved in trying to ensure things were made right when the head of the team himself is getting emotional during a livestream.

You could argue, that Pips and the other general staff that were in that livestream were there to illustrate that the company from the top down cared about restoring those accounts. It was good PR for members of a specific game that needed to see it.

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09-Jun-2023 00:52:31

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mod Ash wasn't talking about just adding cosmetics to the Clan Hall. He said it wasn't even to add other clan features we have in RS3's Clan Citadel.

Stealing Creation and other things aren't "yet to be polled". They were asked for a lot of time the last few years. It is the "long development cost" that stops them from being considered.

We don't have to watch the livestream. We have the transcript here:

https://runescape.wiki/w/Transcript:Login_Lockout_-_Leads_Update_-_RuneScape_Stream_(Mar_2021)

Mods ID0 and ZZ clearly stated their roles and what's happening there:

Mod ID0:

"Overall i'm accountable for technology for jagex right and kind of and driving us forward there... uh and in more detail it's things like all of our servers or our platform like he account system and e-commerce... uh corporate id things of that nature... right it's it's technology from a broad perspective."

Mod ZZ:

"uh is uh i look after the data that runs the back end of the system where where mod id 0 manages the house um i build up the data structures um that we use to make the game better"

Clearly, the 2 Jmods responsible for Login-Logout aren't the RS3 teams. They were there to take care of the backend platform and data problems.

How nice the OSRS website and RS3 Wiki are keeping transcripts for these things. Nobody can lie as we can all see the truth. The login logout problem clearly is from the back end platform and data that are used or a broad purpose.

I am still waiting for the answer why is OSRS keep delaying and cancelling projects on their roadmap if everything is so easy. When they can't even keep the promises on delivering projects on the roadmap year after year, how can they add new things?

09-Jun-2023 02:10:54

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Quoting a pair of J-Mods' introductions proves literally nothing. Nowhere once did I say that people from other divisions of the company weren't working on rectifying this issue. I can do that too.

"Yeah. You know, first off it's been... been quite the week for... for everyone, right? I can imagine what the... the players are going... going through now not getting to access the game, uh, I think everyone loves,

and I think the team is pretty knackered trying to restore all the... the services, and we've just been working non-stop on... on this and... and just want to echo what Mod Pips was saying, you know, very very frustrating moment, um, we're working as quickly as possible to kind of restore all the... of the key services and get everybody running in tip-top shape, and... and that's really our... our focus right... right now. This is our.. our number one priority, and... and we're... we're kind of moving into nex... next steps.

Brought some new... new faces of the table with Mod ZZ and... and I... I think everyone's having a chuckle at you there, uh... uh... Glenn, um and uh, and then of course our... our VP of Technology. These, these are folks that... that uh, are working diligently, relentlessly behind the scenes and, you know,

we've got a massive production team. All they're trying to do right now is get everybody back in... in the right spot.

We've got, you know, our QA teams are working overtime. Our platform teams, all areas of support in the company right now are taking this super super seriously, right? Uh, and that's a picture... everyone's tired and exhausted, doing the very best they can here. Um, one of the things I'm... gosh... [starts to get emotional] I'm just so proud about the community, on the support they give everyone. [pauses due to emotion]. Sorry guys. [laughs]"

Mod Warden, Log In Lockout - Leads Update - RS Stream.

(cont.)

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09-Jun-2023 04:03:14

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

^^
I put up the link to the entire transcript already. Nowhere did it say the RS3 team has anything to do with the login logout problem. It is all about backend platform issues they started getting on February 6, resulting in data for some players getting lost. It was all alone cumulative problems on the backend and database, not anything to do with front end RS3 game update.

09-Jun-2023 04:10:29 - Last edited on 09-Jun-2023 04:11:45 by Dilbert2001

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If this was only a mere background issue, why is Warden, the executive producer for RS3 at the time, on the verge of tears and burning the midnight oil to get this mess fixed? Only the guys introduced in the livestream needed to be given the work, right?

Where is Old School's livestream covering this server issue? Where is the exhausted Mod Kieren or Mod John C trying to explain how they're going to bring players back to the game from this initial issue?

Moreover, you've still not answered my question about how many Old Schoolers were locked out of the game past the initial hours.

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Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

09-Jun-2023 04:12:43

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

^^
How do you expect no RS3 Jmods in a RS3 livestream? Mod Pips showed up in the livestream too. Do you think the CEO is "on the verge of tears and burning the midnight oil to get this mess fixed" just because an RSOF user who doesn't even believe his words on the official Jagex financial reports as well as many interviews, that RS3 is growing stronger in both revenue and members, and he has a plan to be revealed for the next 20 years of this 20 year old game, said so?

How many OSRS were locked out meant nothing when it was abut luck which portion of the database was corrupted due to a backend platform failure. They clearly told us the problem started way back in

February 6

when they found problems in the infrastructure and they grew with cumulative events since then. Obviously that wasn't anything RS3 game update did on the

date of the Login-Logout incident in March

.

Meanwhile, players only play a game when it is a game with good content. Guess why OSRS players are leaving? Is it because new content is so easy to add and they are flooded with great updates... or they are just able to release a quest and a recycled BH they removed?

09-Jun-2023 04:22:43 - Last edited on 09-Jun-2023 04:42:24 by Dilbert2001

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Necro effect on Old School