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SheWhoQuests
Feb Member 2008

SheWhoQuests

Posts: 47 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Most of this rework speaks to me, and I'm actually looking forward to a rework for once. My only internal issue is i feel like those of us who don't LOVE combat are kind of getting the short end of the straw here. I'm not a huge PVMer, but I do like having the benefit of my comp cape stats for the few times that I do go bossing. It's important how we go about giving benefits to bossers and not rewarding skillers. I think that all the tiers should have the same combat benefits. If you give someone with T1 combat +11 Armour, you should give someone with T1 Lore/skills +11 Armour as well. These three sections are arguably the hardest, and should be treated somewhat the same.

Also, the current permanent stat boosts you are suggesting raises two problems:
1)They are not equivalent to the current comp cape and we will be loosing stats upon this update. Comp cape currently gives +43 in all combat abilities. The +5 in combat stats suggested only give us +36, max, if we wear the next highest tier cape during combat. That cape being TokHaar-Kal-____. If wearing that cape we lose Armour and LP with current suggested boosts.
2) We completely lose the Hybrid-state of the cape. If wearing above cape we get +36 in the combat alignment of the cape, but are forced down to a pathetic +5 base in the other combat skills. The next best in class hybrid cape (not talking armour stats) are the skills capes at +21. This is even worse. This has to be balanced out a little better, and carefully. I doubt the PVMing community will be pleased to be losing stats upon this update.

Other that the above issues this is turning out be an exciting update, for me. Other than the (sadly) shelved Bank rework, this could be one of my favorite updates of all time. As long as it is handled correctly.



(2/2 posts)

08-Apr-2019 04:57:46

Max Zuba
Mar Member 2005

Max Zuba

Posts: 280 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm liking how this is going so far, but i would like to add thoughts to the tier 1 combat.

I see you are having internal discussion about moving forced group content to tier 2. I think you should, and i'll explain why.

I have heard the argument "well all group content is the same". If you take out group combat from combat then you have to take group mini games out of minigames. I disagree with this. Thats like someone saying chopping a tree is the same as killing telos, as they are both single player content, thats nonsense. Runescape was designed as a single player game. Multi-player wasnt there (probably due to programming constraints). Over the years multiplayer content was added in things like shield of arrav quest and heros quest (a feature that has now been removed) and mini-games, and more recently multiplayer boss content.

Mini-games were added as something fun to do with friends (yes there was a time when people just played for fun rather than acheivements). They were safe places. You didnt lose your items on death (back when they dropped on the floor and someone else could pick them up). You didnt need good gear (it only went upto rune initially anyway). You didnt need to learn combat mechanics. If you died it didnt affect your team, you just respawned and carried on.

Group bosses. They arnt safe places. If you die you have to pay to get your stuff back from death. You need good gear. You need to learn combat mechanics. If you die you are out of the fight and cant get back in, and your team has to carry on with one player down. There is alot more pressure on you to perform, other players are relying on you.

I dont think you can compare these two and say they are the same.

What about 'leeching' ? could you leech both of these ? Yes. But you are not playing the content. If you didnt need to 'tick off' the achievements you wouldnt be there. Is that what you at Jagex want ? I hope not.

In summary group bosses should be separate to solo bosses.

08-Apr-2019 12:15:12

Liebay
Nov Member 2006

Liebay

Posts: 256 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
SheWhoQuests said :
Looking over the Achievements that are listed on the google doc, i have a few suggested changes:

COMBAT:
*Lower the T2 "Telos if You're Angry" to flat 100% enrage (to match current Trim comp req)
*Move Kal'gerion commander to T2. This task is easy, just time consuming. If a player has the capability to complete T1 Combat, there is no reason they should struggle with this task. If this remains T3, the Diary of Jebediah Omnis(not yet on the list) should be T3 as well. I also might argue that both of these may belong in Lore. (T3 Lore, but T2 combat. It makes a difference which category they are in.)
*ALL group bosses should be at least T2+
*Finish Him moved to T3. Not only is this a Group Boss but takes a coordinated effort to let someone, who may usually play a different role in Vorago, maul.

AREAS
*Music Maestro should be T3. While it is "easy" this is an end game exploration collection achievement.

(1/2 posts)

Looking over achievements in google doc I can very much support the suggested changes from the poster above.

In addition I will emphasize:
It is VERY important that you do NOT put 'Reaper crew' on Combat T1.

You have to listen to those players who do quite a lot of combat and quite a lot of bossing - just not the hardest bosses or group bosses for whatever reason. If those players are not able to even obtain a T1 combat cape and the stats connected to such achievement it will create huge dissatisfaction.

So YES, group bosses should belong to a higher tier than solo bosses!

And you might even consider 'rating' the difficulty of each boss - why should killing Bandos and killing Telos be in same tier?? That would mean the 'Reaper crew' should be split up into several achievements but it makes sense.

'Music maestro' should definately be T3. It involves opening music from hard group boss fights!

08-Apr-2019 12:31:07 - Last edited on 08-Apr-2019 12:42:28 by Liebay

Max Zuba
Mar Member 2005

Max Zuba

Posts: 280 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Its interesting to see what classifies as insane and not insane.

From a personal point of view i find it much easier to do tasks that require grinding than those that require skill.

For example.
If you can kill a kal'gerion demon, then its only a matter of time before you get all the title drops from them. (and it took me a couple of months to get them all)
1000% Telos. Yes you only have to do it once. But you could try and try and never get there.

Additionally
Something like the tuska mask could easily be tier1 instead of tier2 (as mask parts are fairly common, and airut aren't that hard to kill).
Also gwd2 rep can be gained by killing the monsters that run around the heart, and using their drops to summon faction minions for rep, rather than killing the bosses themselves. so could be tier1 instead of tier2

If your plan is just to split the extra acheivements between sane tier2 and insane tier3 then thats all fine. And it is better to keep things simple.

But unless you move the group bosses from tier1 to tier2, you are saying its easier to kill yakamaru than it is to assemble a tuska mask, which makes no sense. My understanding was the reason for having tiers was so you could catagorise tasks better in difficulty settings. I think you need to breakdown the reaper title requirements (convienient though it is all in one place) i think the addition of all the group bosses means you need to split it into difficulty settings for different bosses.

08-Apr-2019 13:10:33

Jon Bon Jovi
Nov Member 2021

Jon Bon Jovi

Posts: 1,444 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
From the news post:

Comp Cape Design Update
As you know, we've been working with the community to redesign the comp cape from the ground up, making it more fun to work towards and less essential to high tier builds.

If you've been following along with the design document, you'll know that we've been making some changes to the way achievements are categorized, most notably by removing the 'completionist' category and redistributing the achievements within between 'miscellaneous' and a brand new category called 'lore'. Each category will also be split into tiers, with different rewards for each tier.

For example, here's how we've categorized the 'combat' achievements.

Tier one:

Reaper Crew (defeating every boss)

So, basically, nothing has changed. All you're doing is adding higher tiers for elite pvm'ers to brag about.

You still need 1 of each catagory for the comp cape. The lowest tier catagory denotes which tier comp you can wear.

See the diagram on page 6 of the googledoc.

From your own Dev-blog

Problem 3
"The third significant problem we're aware of are specific problematic requirements which keep recurring, especially reaper and castle wars. Reaper has two closely related issues - it adds both hard PVM content and forced group content as requirements, which locks out players who can't or won't do either of those things."

08-Apr-2019 15:03:09 - Last edited on 08-Apr-2019 15:12:08 by Jon Bon Jovi

Cb555
Apr Member 2011

Cb555

Posts: 3,544 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Not sure if they're even looking at this thread but doesn't hurt to add feedback anyway:

In reference to: https://rs.game/compachievements

Lore:
I'm fine with the ones listed at least. I note that QBD lore books are listed here at T2, I'm guessing harder to get boss/slayer lore books will be T3 though.

Combat:
Reaper should be T2 minimum - mainly due to group bosses - refer to problem 3 in the design documents...

Vorago maul should be T3 really - killing vorago by itself pass at T2, but this is more than just killing him and requires a co-ordinated effort and/or a lot of attempts to get.

Death's effects should be T1/low end T2 - this is not even remotely worth being T3. These are proper content unlocks and always should've been on the basic comp cape really, nor is it even remotely difficult to do. See problem 2 on the design document...

Consider dropping Kal'gerion to T2 - yes there's a lot of RNG involved (assuming you don't just buy them), but other than that there's not really that much to this one.

Telos 500% I'll take at T2 just because there should be a separation at 1000%..but really, everything after 100% and before 1000% is kinda borderline T2/T3. I'm assuming no stats will be attached to combat T2 specifically here mind - attaching stats makes it effectively mandatory for those after the bonuses after all, which means 100% only for T2 would make more sense.

Skilling: Does Gielorian Cuisine even belong in skilling? it involves eating random food, no actual skilling is involved for the vast majority of them as most are tradable.

Areas (please change the name back to exploration, it's just...better):
Music Maestro should be moved to T3 - over the years some fairly difficult to get tracks have been added, not to mention the sheer amount of them - this requires doing an incredibly huge amount of content, a few of which individually are at least T2 equivalent.

Activities
Champion Tacklebox should be T2 at most. This doesn't even really take that long.

08-Apr-2019 23:35:38 - Last edited on 08-Apr-2019 23:49:35 by Cb555

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