RuneScape Forum Archive | ~ Rite of Passage V2 ~

Tetsu Talon

Posts: 20 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If smaller quests leading up to RoP have a greater chance of development than RoP itself, then I think I would like to see them designed and explored further. I'm less concerned about this -particular- story than getting additional background for Armadyl and his people, and fleshing out their place in Gielinor and the universe. Maybe the story could end up going a different direction than Rite of Passage after those quests, and maybe the story would even be better for it - it's been sitting for a long time, after all.

But if The Powers That Be at Jagex care equally little for either - if these will be passed up because of their content rather than their scope - then there's no point in putting further effort into a compromise.

28-Jun-2018 15:25:54

Melanion

Posts: 444 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

To be honest, making smaller quests is the way to go.
RoP has been in development hell for ages because the mainstrea, players simply aren't interested in it yet. It never won the content surveys and now it's not even part of them anymore.

With smaller quests that are easy to develope, player interest will be drawn to the Armadyl storyline and people will want RoP when the time is right. It means we may have to wait longer for RoP, but as it is, we'd have to wait forever. So I definitely prefer the Option 4 that Raven mentioned.

28-Jun-2018 15:46:49 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 15:59:40 by Melanion

Kimi Mela

Posts: 46 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'm with most of the latest posts, but Melanion really hits it on the head. There is very little interest in Armadyl right now, and expecting RoP to get greenlit by the fans is, in my view, putting the cart before the horse. I honestly could care less about Abbinah for the time being. It seems like a neat place, but the main reason it interests me is lore, more than anything, and we can get lore just fine on the way to it. If you ask me, extending the wait for RoP is a very small price to pay if we're getting other Armadyl content in the process. Option 4 sounds best to me by a mile.

28-Jun-2018 18:23:29

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Keep this in mind: we already agreed to de-scope RoP (i.e., not have all of Abbinah release all at once, just get our foot in the door for some more content to expand on that) in order to reduce the cost. But if even after doing that we STILL have to hear the excuses of “but it’s too expensive” or “well the time is just not right,” then man, what is the point? Mod Raven might have the Best Design Ever, but if it will STILL perpetually be kicked down the road, it’s time for us to go back to the drawing board—exactly what I’ve been trying to do with no success (rip “New Abbinah,” another victim of Chewy in the Suggestions Forum).

But maybe it’s not impossible. I know the very earliest work would even start will be some time after Player Owned Farms, which may be as early as the final part of the year (as we know, a September release date is penciled in for PoF) or as late as the start of 2019 (if, hypothetically, Mod Raven’s team has other smaller projects already on the schedule after PoF).

So my armchair-dev suggestion would be this: keep trying your hardest to get RoP on the schedule ASAP. But if it can’t work out, go forward with a smaller-in-scope thing that still gives us a ton of lore and a "new" area. By my estimation, there’s a huge amount of potential you could get from a more fleshed-out version of the Empyrean Citadel project, done as a full quest that isn’t TAPP.

Elite Dungeons showed us that you don’t need big, expensive budgets for big, impactful content. There’s plenty of assets from World Event 2 that have since then not been put to use—use them! You wouldn't even need to make a huge new area like they did with Elite Dungeons, as the Empyrean Citadel is already there!

28-Jun-2018 19:09:19

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Melanion said :
It never won the content surveys and now it's not even part of them anymore.

Quests almost never "Win" overall in content surveys, as they have to compete with bosses, reworks, and more. In fact, I think only the Elder Gods quest cracked the top 12 for the 2017 survey, and even then, it was on the lower end of that top 12. That's why we look at the results among quests. Among quests, while RoP was never, to my knowledge, #1, it has consistently polled very strongly at the #2 or #3 spot. I'd call that a "win" and shows that more than enough people are very interested.

And the reason it wasn't on this year's survey is because everyone, myself most of all, is sick of seeing it there. They don't need any more data on it, they already know what they need to know.

Melanion said :
people will want RoP when the time is right.

I would argue that the time was right...about two or three years ago, definitely sometime before Endgame, and ideally right after World Event 2. Even back then, there was tons of interest in it; even if it did end up getting roflstomped by everything else in RuneLabs Player Power polls, it still made it to them in the first place, which is more than a lot of other things can say.

28-Jun-2018 19:22:07 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 19:28:37 by Ava Enithesi

Melanion

Posts: 444 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ava Enithesi said :
Melanion said :
It never won the content surveys and now it's not even part of them anymore.

Quests almost never "Win" overall in content surveys, as they have to compete with bosses, reworks, and more. In fact, I think only the Elder Gods quest cracked the top 12 for the 2017 survey, and even then, it was on the lower end of that top 12. That's why we look at the results among quests. Among quests, while RoP was never, to my knowledge, #1, it has consistently polled very strongly at the #2 or #3 spot. I'd call that a "win" and shows that more than enough people are very interested.

And the reason it wasn't on this year's survey is because everyone, myself most of all, is sick of seeing it there. They don't need any more data on it, they already know what they need to know.

Melanion said :
people will want RoP when the time is right.

I would argue that the time was right...about two or three years ago, definitely sometime before Endgame, and ideally right after World Event 2. Even back then, there was tons of interest in it; even if it did end up getting roflstomped by everything else in RuneLabs Player Power polls, it still made it to them in the first place, which is more than a lot of other things can say.

Compared to Fifth age sequel quests, or quests about Zaros, Armadyl was mostly ignored since there's really not much exposure to him in the game.
Here's the thing, if Armadyl content gets a chance to shine and catch people's attention, then perhaps we can get the full scope RoP since demand for the quest and Abbinah will be far greater if there's a lot of people willing to have it and pay for it.

In the end player demand is what creates content.
Adding smaller quests that do not require the creation of a new world will definitely lower the amount of new assets that needs to be made.

28-Jun-2018 22:02:39

Kimi Mela

Posts: 46 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ava Enithesi said :
I would argue that the time was right...about two or three years ago, definitely sometime before Endgame, and ideally right after World Event 2. Even back then, there was tons of interest in it; even if it did end up getting roflstomped by everything else in RuneLabs Player Power polls, it still made it to them in the first place, which is more than a lot of other things can say.
I guess it isn't as simple as I assumed. Well, that's what's to be expected of jumping into this discussion so late. Still, in either case my vote goes to whichever option will give both old and new, both powerful and low-leveled players the chance to get to know Armadyl the way the other gods got exposure. And of course, theoretically anything can happen, so maybe we'll get a low-level quest after RoP some day. I'll frankly be happy with anything, but less so if the first Armadyl content we've had since WE2 is locked behind beating Linza, Nomad, and Gregorovich at the same time.

28-Jun-2018 22:49:23 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 22:50:49 by Kimi Mela

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Melanion said :
Compared to Fifth age sequel quests, or quests about Zaros, Armadyl was mostly ignored since there's really not much exposure to him in the game.
Here's the thing, if Armadyl content gets a chance to shine and catch people's attention, then perhaps we can get the full scope RoP since demand for the quest and Abbinah will be far greater if there's a lot of people willing to have it and pay for it.

I don’t dispute that the snowball effect has *greatly* benefitted Zaros (and not just Zaros, but almost everyone related to Mah) in terms of getting screen time. As for the Fifth Age conclusions...well...they kinda *have* to put them out...

But if Jagex manages to find the time and resources to get RoP out, they should go for it. If not, flesh out the Empyrean Cotadel miniquest into a full non-TAPP quest (perhaps with a graphical update to the Guardians of Armadyl, that’d be nice).

Kimi Mela said :
snip.

It’d give you something to work towards, is the only bright side I can offer. Goals are a thing to keep you interested and motivated, and doing Sliske’s Endgame is very worth it!

28-Jun-2018 23:23:11 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 23:41:23 by Ava Enithesi

A Mighty

Posts: 2,337 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

My stance on this is clear. ALL factions need an introductory quest, and right now Armadyl and the Godless are the two factions that are lacking in content the most. If RoP must be locked behind Endgame, than there needs to be another quest that introduces Armadyl (and, perhaps, the Aviansie) and leads into RoP. I would prefer for the hypothetical Novice and Intermediate quests Raven posted about to be made into a single, Intermediate quest that with the requirements RoP was supposed to have (level 30~40 skills). If this happens, RoP can require Endgame, fine. But if RoP must be the only Armadyl quest, it should in no way be locked behind Grandmaster content.

To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

29-Jun-2018 01:02:05

Jun

2020

Falkorgron

Posts: 1,573 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Well first of all, if "endgame" is referred to the quest "Sliske's Engame" and that being a requirement for all ideas about Armadyl quests in general, I would not recommend that at all. Sliske's engame needs a TON of reqs already and making an impactful reward such as Abbinah locked behind so many quests and levels makes it utterly pointless including the fact that only the most unique high levels would be able to access it. We aren't trying to make another priffdinas "environment" for RoP. Look at the World Wakes sixth age quest, practically almost all the 5th age quests were needed for that one, but those quests were listed as recommended. Sliske's Engame should also just be a recommended quest for RoP with additional rewards offered for players that have completed it. Otherwise, introducing a faction thats locked behind like 300 qp is nonsense almost like releasing RS mobile only for players who have been playing for 5 years and no one else.

As for the new option of the Armadyl series I think that critically changed a lot of opinions here. It also doesn't make sense telling the whole story of Armadyl in one grandmaster quest that would probably take like 3-4 hours max without any puzzles which leaves multiple quests bottle and master quests representing the story of Armadyl as most people here agree should be the alternative case although Mod Raven might have thought otherwise. Especially since it seems this entire update could possibly take until next year. However, there are some people who may want to access Abbinnah immediately and cannot wait for it to be released behind several quests. In fact, as I had stated in my last post, Jagex could try something new and have the entire area be offered as a reward for the first novice quest, and then tell the story of Abbinah in the following quests after that until the grandmaster.

29-Jun-2018 02:52:16 - Last edited on 29-Jun-2018 02:53:39 by Falkorgron

Forums

~ Rite of Passage V2 ~