forums.rs

Forums

~ Rite of Passage V2 ~

Quick find code: 16-17-435-65931992

of 58
Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aeldari said :
On topic I do agree with Mod Raven, his ideas here are definitely something I can get behind and support fully. I will do what I can to help get any new Armadyl lore into the game, he is a great character that I would enjoy seeing more of, even if my ideals are at odds with his own.

I am glad to hear this. Focusing on the "core quest" is the best way to go forward, though once this goes into development, I think it would be wise to not raise expectations too much, or to perhaps be clear that the design has changed since the initial effort, though the story will still be roughly the same. The story focus is the most important now; there's no need to "sell" it via popular vote anymore and thus no need to take time away from the story to make "AFK Hunter" or something.

Deltaslug said :
I'd be ok with a select few islands.
Would allow for focus on quest and easy to toss in a little something something for skilling, but not go overboard.

Indeed, and more can be added later. This was, after all, originally intended to be the first Abbinah quest, with more to come. There are ways you can gate off the rest of Abbinah for future use, something as simple as "the wind currents are too strong to go any further!"

In the original podcast about this, Mod Osborne compared this quest to Windwaker . While that may have set the expectations too high, there is a valuable analogy there. When you start out in Windwaker , the entire world is not available to explore - storms block your way and it's only by progressing that you are able to fully explore. When you complete this quest, then, not all of Abbinah will be available to explore - more progress in the story needs to be made. (And one hopes that we won't need to wait five more years after RoP for the sequel, but that's probably what will happen. Eh.)

02-Dec-2017 09:45:17

Kalas K

Kalas K

Posts: 25 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If you had been willing to forget the introduction of Abbinah (for now) The likelihood is that we could have had quite a bit of Aviansie or more importantly Armadyl themed content by now.

Jagex could have made a quest or update set in Gielinor that would have been fun, exciting, rewarding and some much needed Armadylean content.

It's really hard for me to have any sympathy whatsoever, if you hadn't repeatedly (to the frustration of the bulk of RS community) continued to squawk endlessly about ROP and backing Jagex into a corner by making sure they HAVE to design and create a whole other planet (even just a portion of it) before they could make Armadylean themed quests- we wouldn't be in this mess.

02-Dec-2017 10:37:01

CaptKoloth
Feb Member 2008

CaptKoloth

Posts: 10,673 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kalas K said :
If you had been willing to forget the introduction of Abbinah (for now) The likelihood is that we could have had quite a bit of Aviansie or more importantly Armadyl themed content by now.

Jagex could have made a quest or update set in Gielinor that would have been fun, exciting, rewarding and some much needed Armadylean content.

It's really hard for me to have any sympathy whatsoever, if you hadn't repeatedly (to the frustration of the bulk of RS community) continued to squawk endlessly about ROP and backing Jagex into a corner by making sure they HAVE to design and create a whole other planet (even just a portion of it) before they could make Armadylean themed quests- we wouldn't be in this mess.

I don't see the problem. Since one of my favorite quest series had a whole new area added from the beginning of the series. The Cave Goblin series. Unlocking new areas is what adventure is all about. Thing is the new areas should be added with the intent of some permanent material which makes it worth the development time.

02-Dec-2017 16:21:08

Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kalas K said :
If you had been willing to forget the introduction of Abbinah (for now) The likelihood is that we could have had quite a bit of Aviansie or more importantly Armadyl themed content by now.

Well, maybe. I don't think an alternative Armadylean quest would have fared much better in the Runelabs poll that got us The Light Within. We'll never know, because that's not how it played out. I don't know what quest update in the past two or so years you'd want to replace with the not-RoP Armadylean quest. (I think we could have done without Call of the Ancestors myself, but that one was a bottle quest anyways and thus any Armadyl quest to take its spot would have been watered down anyway).

So let's break it down by year here.

2014: The year after the Runefest in which this quest was revealed. There was no avenue like Runelabs for the players to get any influence whatsoever; the selection on updates was ultimately in Jagex's hands. They polled 5th Age or Sixth Age, which Sixth Age won. Then, without us having done anything, they had the option of "Aviansie," among many others. "Aviansie" didn't do so well, and this is what got us Heart of Stone. Thus, RoP was put on the backburner.

Jagex themselves came up with RoP, and had its fate polled because they realized they underestimated the cost. If it didn't perform strongly enough (i.e., win ), it would be set aside for the time being. Jagex themselves could have gone back to the drawing board and come up with something else at this point, but they didn't. Had they released a less-expensive-but-still-substantial alternative, I am sure I and others would be upset and would possibly still have pushed for RoP regardless, but at the end of the day, I'd have been glad to get something .

(continues below)

02-Dec-2017 17:47:07 - Last edited on 02-Dec-2017 17:47:28 by Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
2015: This is probably the most relevant year here. This was the year Runelabs released, and when the first version of this thread started (or at least started to become very active). We put together a pitch for RoP, with the hope that maybe this would be our second chance. We had to be loud and get name recognition: that's how you win a popularity contest, and that's what we did. We took to Twitter and to Reddit, some people took to various friends chats. We needed as many people as possible to know about it if we were to get supporters. In the first monthly round of Runelabs, though, RoP was not qualified; however, it was still of benefit to us to get our foot in the door of people's minds so that when such a time did come around, we'd be successful. If us doing what we thought needed to be done was so offensive, then I don't know what you want me to say. Social media has a block feature, and RS has ignore lists, and this is one thread anyone can easily ignore (as the vast majority of forumgoers do, which is just fine by me)...

It was only qualified once . Nobody else, as far as I know, ever even tried to pitch a different quest. I can only vaguely remember that after the TLW poll, someone else put up their own proposal for a different Armadyl quest, and after some debate, I decided to set aside any misgivings about "splitting the vote" and support both, and encourage others to do so. My memory on this is a bit fuzzy; it was seemingly AEONS ago. I can say that nowadays I would gladly support any well-thought-out alternative to RoP. I even proposed one of my own (granted, it's not actually a quest) and before posting it, I briefly discussed it with Mod Raven at Runefest. Unsurprisingly, it's gone nowhere , though drafting and posting the thing in and of itself was a lot of fun so I'm not all that upset.

(continues below, this is taking me longer than I thought, yikes)

02-Dec-2017 18:05:14 - Last edited on 02-Dec-2017 18:06:16 by Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
2015: (cont.) We also did, in fact, come up with some alternatives. Not too long after RoP lost, there was a "medium quest" poll that would be coming up (this is the one that would eventually get us "Beneath Cursed Tides" ). We came up with an idea for a quest in which you help Armadyl take back the Empyrean Citadel - the impetus for doing this was that the Empyrean Citadel had a "master key" to control ALL Citadels, and having Sliske have the power to cause countless Citadels come crashing down (your clan's citadel included) was obviously a very bad thing to allow. (Actually, Amascut came up with that bit of the impetus for a non-Armadylean wanting to do this. I'd also argue that saving the world from the sky literally falling is a stronger impetus in helping out a God than any reason we were given for partaking in Zamorak's heist, anyways...)

We got mixed reception at best, I remember there being some people who didn't like it, anyways. There would soon be one major problem - the poll as it was run categorically disqualified this idea. They wanted a "medium size" quest, and there would be no Gods or anything else essential to the Sixth Age allowed. We didn't even bother putting it up on Runelabs. Still, I myself came up with an Aviansie quest about helping two Aviansie mothers find their runaway fledgling. It would have been lighthearted and endearing, and we'd have also learned more about every day life for Aviansies in the time following Armadyl's victory in the Battle of the Bird and the Beast. Alas, I got no traction, but it was still fun to try to skirt the rules. (Another part of why I did this was in response to someone pushing "why no LGBT characters?" Obviously, this poll was conducted before the release of TLW.)

02-Dec-2017 18:15:24 - Last edited on 02-Dec-2017 18:15:43 by Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
2016: The Year of Sliske, basically. Runelabs also shut down, with only one poll being conducted. As it so happens, it was a poll for a new area. We got Abbinah into the final poll, but it lost, badly, as I somewhat expected. This was the last hurrah for Runelabs, because it was never used again for anything. There wasn't even any room to push for any other Armadyl content, because Jagex was experimenting with "serialization," and they wanted to end the Sliske series. The only other time we even did any kind of advertising was the survey, but any "spam" or whatever would have only been for a day or so.

2017: You know the drill. Expansions, then scrapping of expansions. I didn't even bother telling anyone other than my CC to go support it in the survey. Seems like no matter how strongly it performs "among quests," it's never good enough. The ball's in Jagex's court now. Mod Raven proposed an idea to make this quest fit within the budget, which I fully support. In addition, he's also done some work on a miniquest involving the Empyrean Citadel .

Kalas K said :
Jagex could have made a quest or update set in Gielinor that would have been fun, exciting, rewarding and some much needed Armadylean content.

They could have. They also could have gone ahead and made RoP as an expansion, which many people would have subjectively thought would be "fun exciting, and rewarding" too. But they didn't. I also never saw you ever try to come up with any alternatives. I accidentally came up with the idea of an Eagle's Peak rework, akin to how Death of Chivalry reworked Black Knight's Fortress. I also have put up my own idea in the Suggestions forum. That said, I don't think this isn't the thread to advertise such things. Perhaps you should also try the Suggestions forums instead of complaining about us?

02-Dec-2017 18:48:53 - Last edited on 02-Dec-2017 19:05:47 by Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Ava Enithesi

Posts: 780 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kalas K said :
It's really hard for me to have any sympathy whatsoever, if you hadn't repeatedly (to the frustration of the bulk of RS community) continued to squawk endlessly about ROP and backing Jagex into a corner by making sure they HAVE to design and create a whole other planet (even just a portion of it) before they could make Armadylean themed quests- we wouldn't be in this mess.

Okay, but we've been over this.

The vast majority of the community probably doesn't care one way or the other . "Aviansie quest" got voted against severely in the poll in March 2014. If you want to say that our actions caused the community to vote against us in the Runelabs polls in 2015 (despite our pitches getting to the top of Runelabs consistently, and also performing strongly when counted as among quests in the yearly summer surveys) then you'd need to explain what kind of anti-Armadyl-because-I-hate-those-RoP-guys sentiment could have possibly caused a result like this, when none of us had even met each other and hadn't been working together to try and turn people out to vote for us:



And as I laid out above, there really never was much of a chance for any alternative quest to come out. Jagex gave us one try in 2014 (listing it as "Aviansie," not even as "this is the thing we already promised at Runefest btw", it was on us to infer that, and most people don't pay that close attention to Runefest or podcasts). We only really got one shot in 2015, and we thought at the time it was wisest to go with the quest that already had the most name recognition. We tried Abbinah as an area in 2016; there was no good alternative and no time in which we could have proposed any different idea. Besides, even if we had, I can almost guarantee that the same people who already dislike us would kneejerk vote against it anyways.

I don't know what else you want me to say...

02-Dec-2017 19:03:16

Quick find code: 16-17-435-65931992 Back to Top