RuneScape Forum Archive | Minigames Rework or Removal

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

ShallPrevail,

Sweetheart, dwindling player numbers are a mountain-sized problem that is faced by a vast majority of the MMO genre right now. Final Fantasy and Old School RuneScape are canaries in the coal mine. Everyone in the space is struggling to keep populations up right now.

Mini-games, are not, going to be the solution for that.

As far as "the game doesn't have people working on it that love the project like they used to" - that's objectively false - and this is coming from someone that has had her fair share of disagreements with the project lead over the last few months.

Mod Jack argues passionately for what he believes will push Rs3 forward, and while this has a tendency of making a playerbase that already can feel unheard at times even more so, this is coming from a place in his heart that genuinely does hold RuneScape in high regard.

If you wanna argue that Rs3 is going down the can anyway fine. The pathway to hell -is- often paved with good intentions. That is a potential outcome. But don't say it's because they don't care about Rs3 in the first place.

The company higher-ups very easily could let RuneScape 3 flag if they want - because they happen to be overseeing Old School too. Being caught in Little Brother's shadow is a larger existential threat than Rs3 "not being fun" right now.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

16-May-2023 22:52:37

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hilda is quite right.

In addition, Jagex can't make all old content "relevant".
It is true, that there is stuff that has a place. Iron gear for example.
Before EoC, it was a useful starting gear since it had the same requirements as bronze, just better stats. It was also great for splashing magic for low level training.

Iron Gear does have a place now. Just not as much as pre-eoc. Level 10-19 atk/def training, you want to use it but odds are, you can level out of it pretty quick. Plus its not ideal for higher end bosses. You can disassemble them for components for invention, though at the risk of higher junk chance compared to say rune armor.

Devs did make T70+ gear useful with Invention. They tried to keep Nex armor relevant by making it a core component to make the t92 Trimmed masterwork and later T92 sirenic and tectonic armors. But this has become more of an exception than the rule.

Regrettable, a lot of the minigame content equipment hasn't aged well.
They aren't going to make Sacred Clay Armor better than T50. They aren't going to make Sacred Clay tools better than T50.
Void Knight Gear isn't going to be better than T42.
The Penance Trident isn't going to be made better than T70.

At the very least, none of this will be the case as long as there is no "risk" to the activities or some sort of resource investment.

I know we could get into the argument of time as an investment, but we already have 1 activity that does that: Player Owned Ports. T80-85 melee, range, and magic gear, food, scrimshaws, etc.

If the argument is for the sake of cosmetic stuff, we're better off with devs making them accessible thru other means.
Or, if you want the look, then make the argument for making Sacred Clay stuff retro-cosmetic overrides instead of mid-game gear. And again, providing other means of unlocking it all.

17-May-2023 01:19:12

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Don't get me wrong. I'm nostalgic. I liked a lot of the old minigames.

I loved the original concept behind Mobilizing Armies.
Problem? Players didn't want to play it the way the devs envisioned it. If it wasn't the few rewards that were useful, it was simply the trim comp req't.

IRL, the tactic used to rush thru games and get ranking would be horrifying. Yet devs never did anything to counter it like preventing you from being able to canon your own troops.

Sadly, I think this is one of those topics where you're deeply on one side of the fence or the other or completely indifferent about it.

17-May-2023 01:24:08 - Last edited on 17-May-2023 01:26:00 by Deltaslug

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

There really should be no arguments whatsoever on what content RS3 Jmods create now. They don't dictate what content they put in the game. The likes of Mod Jack are just being told to add whatever content that sell by their higher ups, based on sales data. RS3 developers are given the freedom how to design and implement the content they are told to add rather:

"Right now we're getting to launch more frequent story content than we have for a long time by being a bit laid back about it - the devs are being asked to include some story with their updates, but we're not being strict about whether it is or isn't strictly speaking a "quest" and we're not setting minimums for length, quality, etc. (Obviously this is different for the headline quest months like Murder on the Border, but for the skilling and combat focused updates.) That gives the team the freedom to do what they can with the time available, and the results so far have been surprisingly good." - Mod Jack

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/132z07n/comment/ji8dvze/?context=3

I don't know which part is so hard to understand. Mod Jack and the likes never have any issues because they are just doing what their bosses who have the real world sales data told them to. He is even told the results have been surprisingly good. Real world results and praises support it 100% too.

Of course, when the results are surprisingly good, they are just keep going forward in that direction.

17-May-2023 04:15:27

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I promise - I don't want to be right here. Mini-games are home to a large majority of my favorite RuneScape memories. I used to spend hours killing time socializing and warring at Clan Wars. Castle Wars is simply a classic experience that many newer to the game will never truly understand. Fist of Guthix was for a while a free Magic training method that also introduced a pretty fun hide-and-seek mechanic while also introducing unique skilling aide rewards on top of useful for the time combat gear. Stealing Creation, closer to release, when it wasn't overlorded by specific friends chats trying to help people get skilling outfit pieces by banning the combat aspect of it, used to be a fun mixture of PvP combat and competitive skilling.

I missed out on other cult classics like Heist and Cabbage Facepunch Bonanza, but my experiences with them more recently at organized events were extremely positive.

I'm a sucker for a good time-sink mini-game. Especially if it involves PvP combat that doesn't make me want to unsubscribe and spend my money elsewhere.

---

The best hope for any mini-game fix under the current direction is going to come from the Ninja Team, and even for any outcry to reach them, the community is going to have to shout a whole lot louder than they are now. The relative silence is pretty telling that just maybe, this isn't something Rs3's active playerbase particularly cares for right now.

signed, someone who also misses the joy of competition and teamwork from time to time.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

17-May-2023 07:07:31

May

2023

ShallPrevail

Posts: 583 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

H 1 L D A said :
ShallPrevail,

Sweetheart, dwindling player numbers are a mountain-sized problem that is faced by a vast majority of the MMO genre right now. Final Fantasy and Old School RuneScape are canaries in the coal mine. Everyone in the space is struggling to keep populations up right now.

Mini-games, are not, going to be the solution for that.

As far as "the game doesn't have people working on it that love the project like they used to" - that's objectively false - and this is coming from someone that has had her fair share of disagreements with the project lead over the last few months.

Mod Jack argues passionately for what he believes will push Rs3 forward, and while this has a tendency of making a playerbase that already can feel unheard at times even more so, this is coming from a place in his heart that genuinely does hold RuneScape in high regard.

If you wanna argue that Rs3 is going down the can anyway fine. The pathway to hell -is- often paved with good intentions. That is a potential outcome. But don't say it's because they don't care about Rs3 in the first place.

The company higher-ups very easily could let RuneScape 3 flag if they want - because they happen to be overseeing Old School too. Being caught in Little Brother's shadow is a larger existential threat than Rs3 "not being fun" right now.

Hey that's great but RS3 has been going down for 10-15 years now, it hasn't just been a slow decline as of just late but we can continue to try to be positive and delusional.....

Mod Jack can feel whatever he feels, but if you don't know what you're doing it won't make any difference because nothing will work unless it works. I've paid close attention to what has been going on with RS3 under Jacks watch and it seems like Jagex has a vision that is similar to other MMO's and that itself only relates back to the slow decline that you just mentioned with all these MMO's that are currently happening.

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17-May-2023 19:37:04 - Last edited on 17-May-2023 19:38:45 by ShallPrevail

Sep

2022

E I E dInO

Posts: 226 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

ROFL! It is what Jack's bosses told him what to do and the results are surprisingly good, not what Jack feels.

As in the case of all software products, devs don't have much influence on the direction of the business. Jack can't tell us RS3 is doing surprising good, like with 20% revenue growth rate, easily blowing away the -7% from OSRS and -1% from the entire video game industry. He doesn't have the data. It is the other way around, the financials and marketing people told Jack the results, and what the devs need to do.

17-May-2023 21:00:39

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You're arguing with someone who herself isn't exactly "bullish" on RuneScape's prospects, man.

> I think Mod Jack has a tendency to make players who already hold a negative opinion about the game's trajectory feel like their personal observations don't hold any merit. It also seems like he prioritizes the team's vision and ways to address certain problems above the vision of the active playerbase and isn't terribly keen to find middle ground even though he claims he values it. All of this makes him seem abrasive and dismissive of player feedback. For as much improvement as the Rs3 team has made in the communication department in the last few months. Jack could use some better PR help.

> Trending downward in population along with the rest of the MMO space is, as you said, not ideal. This wasn't me "praising" them for conforming to the trend. I think it's a dangerous spot for RuneScape to be in especially because Jagex is going to get paid (MTX and subscriptions to both games) regardless of if Rs3 is generating active users or not. The first people to lose are developers (like Mod Jack) for RuneScape who actually care about the game's health in that scenario - with we the playerbase not too far behind them.

> I'm a longtime costumer who loathes the direction the Wilderness has taken, loathes that there's two smaller communities that easily could be one larger one that now argue between each other, and misses the halcyon days where big mini games that took hours of your play session at once were the absolute rage. If you think my defense of the games development team makes me a sunshine pumper....well , I can let you continue arguing with Dilbert if that's what you prefer. Jagex can't do any wrong to him.

I can affirm ALL of the above, and still believe that sinking a ton of development time and money on a new mini game is a terrible idea.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

18-May-2023 02:39:12 - Last edited on 18-May-2023 02:42:03 by H 1 L D A

Sep

2022

E I E dInO

Posts: 226 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mod Jack has no says on the direction of the game just as the person who replaced, Mod Osborne didn't. Mod Osborne told us he was just middle management, on top of him there was the EP.

We learned that EPs like Mods Keeper and Warden also only have limited influence on the direction of the game. For example, Mod Keeper said he couldn't tell whether the RS4-ish transformation of RS3 would be called RS4, it wasn't up to him. Ironically, it was Mod MIC, who was on the marketing side, came out and said RS3 would remain under the same namesake for at least the next 2 years.

The actual population of RS3 has been steadily, if not even risen slightly, despite of lower concurrent players. Real financial data and words from Mod Pips, the CEO told us so - the similar 1.1 million members for the last 2 years, despite of the -6% drop in revenue from OSRS while RS3 gained 20%.

18-May-2023 03:46:37

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

As a player, I don't care much for the game bringing in revenue, because there's multiple ways for the game to do that.

> Membership
> Bonds

(the above are the two available for Old School as well as Rs3)

> Treasure Hunter Keys
> RuneCoins
> RuneMetrics

(these are revenue sources that only apply to Rs3.)

I would expect Old School to lose revenue when growth isn't occurring under the various circumstances. Because many players will have access to RuneMetric equivalents for free through RuneLite (and slowly through Jagex's c++ OSRS client, which may be a potential sticker shock when the company decides it has enough of RuneLite's features it likes and decides to reverse course on it's fair-to-use status.) OS doesn't have utility fees that RS3 players may pay. That's not even addressing cosmetics and gambling through Treasure Hunter.

On top of that, RS3GP and OSRSGP are not one-to-one, but bonds still cost the same regardless of game with regards to real world currencies.

For about 8 bucks, you can turn one bond into just north of 7m OSGP...... or 70m RS3GP.

Rs3's inflation issues make buying GP in the game ten times more lucrative simply looking at the numbers. I personally don't think that it's necessarily that much harder to make GP in Old School either, so it really does feel like you get more for your eight dollars buying RS3GP. If others are thinking like I am, this also drives up revenue on Rs3's behalf.

It's safe to say that revenue is not equivalent to player count. Both games are lucrative, but only one of them is beating the trend in retention and activity (which does not mean growth, before you and Dilbert try it, Dino.) - and it's not Rs3.

It's truly amazing how we can't talk about any real solution for anything whenever OSRS gets brought up here. I'd actually like to talk about mini games. not population or revenue. You'll find that in literally every other forum where the games are compared.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

18-May-2023 07:10:50

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Minigames Rework or Removal