RuneScape Forum Archive | A Fort of our own

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"I'm kind of sick of trying to prop up this notion that players can't enjoy both RS3 -and- OSRS"

Who said that in this thread? Nobody.

We can all enjoy both RS3 and OSRS, when ideas from both games aren't even original. Other games have done similar things log ago.

Make no mistakes though. What one game or Jmods from one game do or say don't mean a thing to the other game. Mod Ash might have given OSRS players the reason why it took them so long to update whatever content in OSRS but it absolutely means nothing and represents nothing from RS3 Jmods' perspectve.

The reality is since 2013, RS3 Jmods have been talking about making construction updates outside POH with other Player Owned Content. That was their long term plan. They delivered a lot of them like 2 POFs, Playered Owned Sunken Dungeon, Player Owned Island etc. In 2015, they also made a sizable Aquarium system inside POH, and that was way way way before Mod Ash talked about "spaghetti code".

Now, you look at all those fairy rings, teleport portals in OSRS. Perhaps they are good for OSRS because they don't have the better updates already released in RS3. We already have portable fairy rings through Invention, and all kinds of teleport scrolls we can store in our Globe Trotter suit as well as free teleports from out Elite Skilling Outfits. Why do we need to waste time to go to POH? They don't do things Mod Ash and OSRS do with POH in RS3 because we already have better content, and better systems and better foundations and groundworks for the RS3 players in place for years.

22-Feb-2023 00:51:38 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2023 01:04:15 by Dilbert2001

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

We'll get there, I think. Both of us are ping-ponging

The origin of Construction's "spaghetti-code" is not a term invented by Mod Ash, nor was he the one to complain about it.

It's a catch all coding term that talks about labyrinthian code that starts with multiple programmers adding onto the code or changing it without necessarily leaving a guide to altar in the future, resulting in a tangled mess that becomes increasingly difficult to change in short order.

Mod Ash essentially had to rewrite the code for how POH Construction worked in OSRS to implement some of the Construction Expansion over there. It was an immense feat.

When I mentioned him before, I was alluding to the fact that RS3's team, in the event that they -would- be willing to update the Player Owned House, that Jagex could simply ask one of their own employees (Ash) to help in that process even though he works on OSRS' team.

I wouldn't know if Jagex has more of a grip on the POH coding than Reddit, the YouTuber Protoxx, etc seem to believe, but there's certainly conspiracy theories dating years that Jagex has avoided touching the POH because the code was too messy since 2015, when the Aquarium was released.

(That also makes the Aquarium an update that is 8 years old, which means that Construction inside the POH has seen absolutely nothing for nearly a decade.)

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- July 31st, 2022

22-Feb-2023 01:10:36 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2023 01:11:10 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Didn't I clearly point out RS3 has made sizeable updates to POH with the likes of a full Aquarium sytem 8 years ago? Can you please tell us how what Mod Ash had to rewrite "alluding" to what "fact" in RS3?

Remember, OSRS is a game with much less content then RS3. OSRS had to spend almost 3 years to rewrite a lot of code to make a Clan System that we already had in RS3. What Mod Ash had to rewrite in OSRS POH absolutely means nothing in RS3. The actual alludng fact is RS3 had updated POH way way way before Mod Ash said a thing about rewriting POH code in OSRS.

How can it be more obvious when Mod Ash et al had to spend 3 years to rewrite codes for OSRS Clan System absolutely didn't mean RS3 had also needed to spend 3 years to make a Clan System, including a full scale Clan Citadel, they already had for over a decade?

22-Feb-2023 01:20:41 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2023 01:25:22 by Dilbert2001

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I would disagree that the Aquarium is very sizable, considering that people literally only use it to claim an Elite Clue or train Construction using the fastest training method available by treating the Prawnbroker like it was just any other piece of furniture in the entire house.

Is it a visually impressive piece of content? Absolutely. Does it have a lovely tie-in with Fishing that the handful of players who probably -do- care about making a POH feel complete might spend a little more than 2 seconds of their time every once in a while to interact with? Sure.

Sizable? Especially so much that I'm supposed to be happy about the state of how my POH enhances my gameplay experience for nearly a decade after the Aquarium was released? C'mon.... That's like saying we don't need any more bosses because of all the assets used when the first God Wars Dungeon was released.

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- July 31st, 2022

22-Feb-2023 01:34:57

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

H 1 L D A said :
I would disagree that the Aquarium is very sizable, considering that people literally only use it to claim an Elite Clue or train Construction using the fastest training method available by treating the Prawnbroker like it was just any other piece of furniture in the entire house.

Is it a visually impressive piece of content? Absolutely. Does it have a lovely tie-in with Fishing that the handful of players who probably -do- care about making a POH feel complete might spend a little more than 2 seconds of their time every once in a while to interact with? Sure.

Sizable? Especially so much that I'm suppose to be happy about the state of how my POH enhances my gameplay experience for nearly a decade after the Aquarium was released? C'mon.... That's like saying we don't need any more bosses because of all the assets used when the first God Wars Dungeon was released.

I am talking about the coding is sizable, not you use it or not. Actually the Aquarium is the best construction training method for a lot of high level players.

Regardless, The Aquarium clearly showed RS3 has no "spagetti code" problem Mod Ash had in OSRS POH.

RS3 put Aquarium in POH because it is the kind of content we have in real life. They don't put an island, 2 farms, a slayer dungeon and a fort there because they simply don't belong in a real life home.

RS3 has demonstrated they can create all kinds of player owned content. Coding is not a problem and they have 15 years of solid foundations, groundworks and systems set up already for further development that OSRS and Mod Ash may not have.

22-Feb-2023 01:40:51 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2023 01:47:01 by Dilbert2001

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

So you're saying in the eight years since, when players have been asking for more POH related content ranging from being able to re-arrange your already pre-made rooms so that you didn't have to destroy them in the process to an update that would rival Old School's suddenly meta-defining personal hub, Jagex has simply........ignored those players?

I think I'd rather there -be- spaghetti code. That's a lot less depressing an outcome anyway.

---

both of us now have said multiple times that the upgrades in Old School's POH don't really make sense in RS3.

The issue, is that the Aquarium doesn't even come close to feeling as rewarding to have built as the things in Old School do.

No, we don't need a flipping Portal Nexus in Rs3, but an upgrade of that caliber that makes sense within RS3 as a game? There's most certainly a void of space for such a concept.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

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- July 31st, 2022

22-Feb-2023 01:55:31

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

H 1 L D A said :
So you're saying in the eight years since, when players have been asking for more POH related content ranging from being able to re-arrange your already pre-made rooms so that you didn't have to destroy them in the process to an update that would rival Old School's suddenly meta-defining personal hub, Jagex has simply........ignored those players?

I think I'd rather there -be- spaghetti code. That's a lot less depressing an outcome anyway.

---

both of us now have said multiple times that the upgrades in Old School's POH don't really make sense in RS3.

The issue, is that the Aquarium doesn't even come close to feeling as rewarding to have built as the things in Old School do.

No, we don't need a flipping Portal Nexus in Rs3, but an upgrade of that caliber that makes sense within RS3 as a game? There's most certainly a void of space for such a concept.

Again, a few players aren't the whole playerbase. The whole RS3 playerbase want Player Owned Content, not just POH content, and that's why RS3 made and delivered a lot of them. They presented this plan in the 2011 Runfest and the playerbase excepet the ones who are disinterested knew and applauded it these 12 years.

We can access almost everything in POH through our Bank. When we don't even have to go there of course the priority to make changes to irrelevant things is low. Actually RS3 Jmods have talked about adding rooms to display our RS3 achievements. It is just not high priority.

The actual fact is players are enjoying what RS3 made outside POH, otherwise we won't see so so many of them in the new Fort and POF, let alone the ones we don't see in POP, Uncharted Island, Sunken Dungeon etc.

RS3 players, the ones who didn't quit and not disinterested in RS3, told us what they think through their in game actions and wallets outside the game already.

22-Feb-2023 02:01:41 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2023 02:19:18 by Dilbert2001

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I don't know why you keep bringing up things like POF/POSD. Both of those pieces of content provide -unique- gameplay that makes sense within the settings they were released in.

While you probably -could- breed livestock in the POH, Granny Potterington's land is pretty expansive and built out to suit the task just fine, and it's steps away from the Ardougne lodestone. If you're particularly adept at farming, the teleport to Ranch out of Time is within the farmhouse too. (I take personal exception to calling it "player-owned farms" if we're in reality just tending, breeding and trading livestock for Granny Potterington, but I understand that the name kind of works functionally.)

The Sunken Pyramid has the same odd choice of nomenclature. I prefer calling it the Sunken Pyramid over "Player Owned Slayer Dungeon" because if the player took ownership of it, like they do Fort Forinthry or their POH, it would imply that the player could choose where to locate their farm/dungeon. The Pyramid, the spirits within, and the infrastructure were already in place before we were able to claim the Slayer codex. (Yes, I would agree that functionally, calling it POSD is fine.)

Those are both just tiny immersion-breaking nitpicks for me. I'm okay if you want to call all of the above "player owned content" from a functional standpoint.

---

It's not at all weird for a House to have a greenhouse, or for a butler to assist their master in managing affairs regarding the inside -and- outside of the estate.

I would argue that the Player Owned House is RuneScape's FIRST foray into releasing content that fits the description of "player owned content" - and in the same way Jagex should not be keen to leave POF/ROOT/POSD in the dust when thinking of new ways to update Farming or Slayer, I don't think it's necessarily keen to completely forget the POH when it comes to Construction.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

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- July 31st, 2022

22-Feb-2023 02:28:34

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

^^
Didn't I tell you all these Player Owned Content would be and had become our new Construction Content since the Runefest 2011 reveal?

Jagex told us since 2011 this would be the future of our Construction Content. They delivered it and the RS3 community enjoyed it.

22-Feb-2023 02:37:16

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Nobody is saying they aren't.

At the end of the day, the only thing capable of killing the POH (as you state in your original post) is Jagex themselves.

Fort Forinthry -does- move some of the greatest pieces of content out of that lonely instance so that you can build and interact with it alongside other players, and it sets up what will probably be another pretty good lore arc for the game too.

...but it's not going to reimburse me the millions of GP I spent or splinters I got from trying to train the skill on my trackpad, or the sheer fun I've had working on my POH, and it's not ever going to have the kind of customization that made me inclined to pay that steep price in the first place.

The Fort also hasn't dethroned the POH as the best xp per hour for Construction, speaking outside of my (and several other homeowners') experience.

If -you're- right, and there isn't a tangible obstacle (i.e. ancient codebase they don't want to mess with) in the way of Jagex giving the POH a much needed, and very much requested update, then it would be Jagex choosing to stick the knife in and leaving the body behind a portal.

Jagex does that sometimes in the name of progress on our side of the game. Just, ignoring the old and stacking up the new.

I'm allowed to verbally signal that I hate that direction in general - and I wish more members of the community would feel the courage enough to do so even though it may not bare fruit.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

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22-Feb-2023 03:01:34

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