RuneScape Forum Archive | A Holiday Compromise

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

They made the 3a equipment have a rare drop rate (which, is accessible 24/7, 365 days a year - a marked difference from a holiday event) because that's what it was set at when already from the start of the 2007 backup. Clue Scrolls and Treasure Trails were already in RuneScape in 2007.

They didn't need to make them a common drop. Clue Scroll rewards can be hunted for whenever a player wants to hunt for them. That isn't the case AT ALL with a holiday item.

---

Are they? They're going to re-run Trailblazer here pretty soon. Might be too soon to say matter-of-factly that Leagues are even FOMO in nature.

It's okay to miss out on a Leagues trophy because you have to actually EARN a Leagues trophy. Holiday events are about celebrating the listed holiday. The items are supposed to be

much easier

to obtain than a competition win would be. While any given year's holiday events would be especially FOMO in nature given the year of release, its not like the content is supposed to suck the player dry of any time they can play so Jagex can hit arbitrary engagement numbers - and the events, unlike Leagues, are not competitive in nature, and the spirit of the holiday is never about getting things other people can't have. It's about the holiday itself.

What do you gain for bringing Old School into this conversation anyway? Old School's event is

recycled from last year

and it's still "leagues" better than what Rs3's is because all of the new items are able to be obtained from clearly defined thresholds and not simply RNG that has a chance of forcing the player to come back next year.

It's a little sad that Old School can just mail it in and still have a better holiday event than RS3.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

20-Oct-2023 02:46:41 - Last edited on 20-Oct-2023 02:47:48 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rares are rares. Either players don't focus on the and don't care if the others get them or not, or they are a lot and try to get them themselves. It doesn't matter where they come from. Third Age gear are rare because OSRS want them to be rare because they know OSRS players like rares. It is the same thing in RS3. Both games make rares RNG based.

"Are they? They're going to re-run Trailblazer here pretty soon. Might be too soon to say matter-of-factly that Leagues are even FOMO in nature."

"Concerns over reward availability
While Old School RuneScape does not aim to have discontinued items, the trophies may be seen as such, since they are a different set of items each league and cannot be obtained once the event is over. A similar problem would occur if leagues cease to run each year, which would prevent new points from coming in to purchase items from the rewards shop.

"

Are they? Sure, the OSRS WIki said they are. Not agreeing with the OSRS Wiki?

"It's okay to miss out on a Leagues trophy because you have to actually EARN a Leagues trophy."

Then why it is not okay to miss out an Orange Halloween Mask and such when we have to actually EARN them doing the Halloween Event? At least we can buy Orange Halloween Mask from the GE or other players. We won't definitely have FOMO in this RS3 event.

" The items are supposed to be much easier to obtain than a competition win would be.

"

Who said that? Again, rares are rares. RS3 makes some rares deliberately because they want them not to be easy to obtain. Why don't you tell us OSRS 3rd Age gear are supposed to be easier to obtain?

What do you gain for bringing Old School into this conversation anyway?"

This should be my question to you? Forgot you brough this up on Page 3, Post 3:

"In Old School, you are GUARANTEED to get the item for completing the event"

20-Oct-2023 03:25:41

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Third Age gear is only rare because of drop rate. There is nothing stopping a player, whenever they choose to complete clue scrolls, from trying to obtain it. There is no set timeline where the Third Age is not available at all. They can pursue it for as long as it takes, take breaks whenever they need, and eventually the equipment may show up in the chest. A Third Age piece is more of an equivalent to a boss drop than it is to a Santa Hat, because even if the drop rate is incredibly low, there are players generating new 3A equipment into the game.

---

A Holiday item is only rare should Jagex choose to discontinue it, which means that players have no chance whatsoever after a certain amount of time passes, and either must wait for the item to be re-introduced by Jagex or they have completely missed out.

Missing out on the item is okay - but only in the following situations.

> The item offers no discernible gameplay advantages.
> The item doesn't hold immense GP value.
> The item had a wide enough opportunity window with assurances of participation being enough to reward it (say, the few weeks a holiday event is active, and a short quest or what have you being all that is required to obtain it.)

At the end of the day, if you missed out on this type of holiday item - it was because you simply weren't playing RuneScape around the time the event was active. People don't tend to complain about stuff like that.

---

So let's break that down. People aren't too upset about missing out on Third Age gear because there is always an opportunity for the clue casket to surprise you. Jagex isn't taking away the opportunity to obtain the Third Age, so therefore, it's not even remotely comparable to a holiday item in spite of its very low drop rate.

---

How about Leagues trophies?

I believe that if Jagex isn't going to release a new competition and decide to re-run an older one, that they should re-run the previous reward, so I disagree with them.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

20-Oct-2023 04:21:31

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You had brought up Old School first, in page 3, post TWO.

"Aren't we getting tradeable items from Old School for a decade?"

I'm here to talk about how Rs3's holiday events can focus more on the spirit of the holiday being celebrated, include everyone, and avoid being panned into the ground the same way a stupid battle-pass idea has been the last three times they tried.

I want RS3 to be a good game. You're the one wasting time talking about Old School.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

20-Oct-2023 04:30:00

Sep

2023

Tetsuya152

Posts: 10 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The thing about TH exclusive holiday cosmetics is that IM's and HCIM's have no access to TH whatsoever. If they are not tradeable, these cosmetics are just straight up impossible to obtain for some of us folks.

As ironman i don't care if i am excluded from things such as double XP events, XP boosts in general, or a variety of loot items i can obtain in other ways. That's what i signed up for when making an IM. But excluding me from drip is where i draw the line. It's the main reason why i do mostly approve of tradeable cosmetics, because just having the option to grind my butt off for weeks or months to obtain a cool looking cosmetic is nice. I don't have to get it, but i can if i want it. And the luck component is there too of course. I have farmed 1200+ pumpkins already in this event. No ensouled, no mask, no beret, no ability cosmetic. I am willing to grind alot, but i can STILL just get really poor luck and leave the event empty handed after dedicating countless hours into grinding. And that leaves a pretty bitter taste in my mouth tbh.

For the holiday events, i agree, i liked the old style as well where it was a short miniquest and you'd get like an emote and a cosmetic or two out of it, but i can also see where Jagex is coming from trying to change it up a bit, trying to be a bit innovative with it. Not that i think the current event is an exciting one for example.

Though old events didn't offer as many potential rewards/as much variety of cosmetics. Doing one miniquest for 5 minutes and then unlocking 20+ cosmetics that we'd currently have to farm for feels like a bit of an overkill.

I think a return to the more light-hearted origins of holiday events would be good, with no "win the lottery to get this years cosmetics" stuff.
Holidays should include everyone. Things like the Hero Pass or Yak Track already embody the "grind for x hours to get cosmetics" spirit pretty well. Let holidays be a bit less grindy and time consuming perhaps.

20-Oct-2023 05:46:57

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You'll have to forgive me, Tetsuya, I don't play an iron - so I'm a bit confused as to how you can be for tradeable cosmetics if ironman can't trade? Or are many of the tokens from these later events obtainable by irons in some way?

My solution regardless though.

1. Treasure Hunter was supposed to be an "exclusive" drip to people who choose to pay for it - but if it were to make it easier for Irons to obtain said drip, I'd 100% ditch the TH idea and just make it a Marketplace purchase via RuneCoins. I think the idea of having to do anything to mess with RNG, especially gambling away real money, for holiday rewards is a sick joke.

2. From there, the "season festival" would be a great place to gain experience in unique ways (Dungeoneering Hole, the Soup station from last year's Halloween, etc.), congregate with other players, and passively earn older cosmetics. Festivals would be set on a predictable schedule and would last long enough to where it would be more difficult to not either get the cosmetic yourself or have a friend trade you a spare token.

3. Finally, the more holiday-targeted mini quest/holiday-within-a-quest-series/"holiday event" would reward the classic one or two pieces of drip (ideally cosmetic overrides, it's 2023.) and maybe some emotes, overhead emotes, or what have you for minimal effort and time.

I'm not the biggest fan of the H'oddments/Heartments store because it often comes with silly roadblocks for irons (until Jagex has to fix those blocks), and encourages Jagex to design payouts around Treasure Hunter, which is almost always the most rewarding source of H'odds.

I'm also not a fan of things like the Wrapping Paper collectathon at Christmas time because Jagex drums up massive player engagement on merely "a chance" at a rare item, fostering unhealthy play habits and disregarding people's livelihoods.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

20-Oct-2023 06:10:11

Sep

2023

Tetsuya152

Posts: 10 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Apologies for the confusion,
some cosmetics actually ARE tradeable, a small selection of cosmetics can be purchased even by IM's and HCIM's in the GE. We can't sell anything of course, so it's harder to get the money required to buy it.
You can for example purchase a Stratus Cloud token on the GE,but you cannot purchase a Santa Claws token as IM. Both of which were TH content as far as i'm aware. No idea why you can buy one but not the other.

When i said i'm in favor of tradeable cosmetics what i meant was, that i like that tokens for cosmetic items are something IM's can buy. And i'd like if more of the untradeable cosmetics became tradeable for IM's. Gold, Runecoins, Oddments, don't care which currency, just don't lock it away entirely. Purchasing these items on the GE is literally the only way we can obtain them, making them untradeable entirely would take away the chance for us to get them.

Another fun fact, Ironman accounts can also trade Bonds actually, can receive them or give them away

20-Oct-2023 07:29:22

Jan

2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,757 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

With extended seasonal events there would need to be a system to limit the amount of XP gained. In the name of balance. There could be a multiplier that gets lower over time, like some of the previous double XP events.

A different angle could be to have their version of a mostly invisible and free hero pass. We gain participation points in whatever way and the shop could include untradeable cosmetic items from the past.

For regular, non-ironman players everything tradeable can be obtained through the bond system. Players get caught up in the idea of MTX Bad, but both versions of the game are open in this way. Unless I am mistaken. I could be.

My earlier point about 'whales' is that tradeable TH items are a bit out of character for the species. It seems more targeted for players who are trading GP for spins, rather than buying them directly.

Maybe my bigger point is WHO are they making the game for, and are the systems properly focused on the targets. If they want systems that work for all players, like they thought hero pass could, that is a difficult problem.

A totally free participation reward program.... do they actually want to do that? In a way, it might seem like the heavy users are being excluded, assuming they already have everything that other players want. IMO they are not really the target for increased engagement, there could be more advanced content that other players work towards.

Another way to gather players is they could have expanded Voice of Seren type buffs that apply to the entire map. There could be tier 1 buffs that everyone gets, and you earn points to activate tier 2 buffs. There could even be extra 'drops' that are only received during the voice. Or items that can only be made during the buff. The idea is to funnel players into training the same skills at the same time and make it more rewarding to do that.

20-Oct-2023 14:46:04

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"Third Age gear is only rare because of drop rate."

Likewise, Orange Halloween Mask is only rare becaue of drop rate. What's the problem?

"There is nothing stopping a player, whenever they choose to complete clue scrolls, from trying to obtain it."

Totally wrong! We all know we need to get a clue scroll first before completing it. The insanely low chance of getting a 3rd Age gear from OSRS essentially means an average player won't even get the number of clue scrolls to get a 3rd Age gear even playing for 10 or 20 years, or perhaps never.

"Treasure Hunter was supposed to be an "exclusive" drip to people who choose to pay for it"

Totally wrong again! TH definitely isn't supposed to be an "exclusive" drop to people who choose to pay for it. People who choose to play the game and not pay for it get everything on TH. There is no "exclusivity" of TH items to paid players.

"the "season festival" would be a great place to gain experience in unique ways

Who said that? Not Jagex who created and operated RSC/RS2/RS3/OSRS. Many of their seasonal events are not based on xp and levels. For instance, April Fools in RS3 have been mainly for fun, with some cosmetics rewards sometimes.

"Finally, the more holiday-targeted mini quest/holiday-within-a-quest-series/"holiday event" would reward the classic one or two pieces of drip"

RS3 has been bringing back "classic" cosmetics like Rubber Turkey and such from various sources. They don't have to put them in any specific events.

"You had brought up Old School first, in page 3, post TWO."

You are just exposing your tendency to take everything out of context. I clearly brought up RSC/RS2/RS3/OSRS since 2001, it means every Runescape variant Jagex created since 2001 by the Gowers, not just OSRS.

20-Oct-2023 17:13:33

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Tetsuya152 said :
The thing about TH exclusive holiday cosmetics is that IM's and HCIM's have no access to TH whatsoever. If they are not tradeable, these cosmetics are just straight up impossible to obtain for some of us folks.

Please look up all the TH rewards and check up the rewards from his Holiday Events. There is absolute no TH exclusive Holiday cosmetics in this event. Everybody should see it with their own eyes to know the truth.

20-Oct-2023 17:15:24

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A Holiday Compromise