RuneScape Forum Archive | Can We Talk About MTX Now?

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Treasure Hunter is less predatory in nature than promotional partnerships or paying for additional subscriptions for additional characters.

I'm gonna edit this one because there's a lot to unpack here.

To start, I'm pretty sure getting the ability to play multiple accounts under one subscription only would be a very popular change among players - which would indicate that yes, AltScape does have a pain point to address, if players want to go that route. The same is also true for promotional partnerships. Dilbert, you like to remember Old School's early-access partnership deal for Soul Wars. Players didn't really enjoy that either. Be it a regular Twitch Prime subscription or something one off, that pain point applies as well.

So, why employ whataboutism to defend Treasure Hunter here? There are still players who hate literally all additional payments beyond subscription fees on their main account.

Finally, Treasure Hunter doesn't assuredly give players the items they may be opening chests for. It's a randomly-generated chance that players put their real money into. It's gambling, and it could lead to much more significant mental health matters than owning an alt or having multiple subscription services would. Not -every- player is saying "Oh boy, I can't wait stockpile on lamps, stars, protean packs, and silver hawks!"... It's probably something where they are trying to complete a cloak of seasons and snipe the Enforcer walk. Which isn't incredibly likely.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

12-Sep-2023 02:08:22 - Last edited on 12-Sep-2023 02:08:48 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"To start, I'm pretty sure getting the ability to play multiple accounts under one subscription only would be a very popular change among players - which would indicate that yes, AltScape does have a pain point to address, if players want to go that route. The same is also true for promotional partnerships. Dilbert, you like to remember Old School's early-access partnership deal for Soul Wars. Players didn't really enjoy that either. Be it a regular Twitch Prime subscription or something one off, that pain point applies as well. So, why employ whataboutism to defend Treasure Hunter here? There are still players who hate literally all additional payments beyond subscription fees on their main account."

I didn't employ "whataboutism" to defend TH here. Not that TH is not pay to win, it is but we can earn TH keys in many easy ways by just playing the game, so it is not predatory. TH is not forced to pay. Now you look at exclusive content that must be paid with real money or RWT currency outside the family of Jagex games, we are forced to pay to gain access to them. They are predatory.

I know some may say, look at them as expansions. A lot of games have expansions but not Bonds or other MTX, yes, I know and I know many players like buy to play with expansions and refused to call them MTX. To me, the hell no because the expansions, game modes or whatchamacallit divide the community. Let say the core game is the classic F2P areas, then I have to pay $30 to unlock The Arc, another $30 to unlock Anachronia and yet another $30 to unlock Um. Great that if I want to spend $90 to unlock all of them... but what about my friend want to only buy Um, and my clanmate want to only buy Anachronia? I can't play with all of them. It is just bad predatory MTX from what I see.

12-Sep-2023 03:13:29

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You know who engages in that kind of "expansion"-style gameplay you don't like because it divides the community?

Every RuneScape player that owns membership. You DO have to pay to reach places like the Arc, Anachronia, and Um. Already.

That form of transaction has been okay for decades, and it's against that form of transaction that makes literally every other paywall in the game feel overly excessive to players.

Why should there be a loot-box system that players can pay for ON TOP of a game that's already got a subscription-based model? Or a cosmetic store or other marketplaces? Or a battle pass you can buy progress on? With all due respect to F2P, most players in RS3 are members and pay that fee already.

If Treasure Hunter ONLY used keys that were obtainable via in-game activities, then this wouldn't be a harmful MTX matter and it also wouldn't even be harmful outside of the majority of players being too unlucky to pull the big prize. Because you CAN buy keys, and infinitely do so until you run out of whatever real life currency you are using to do so, it turns into a casino that can have just as big a stake as the Duel Arena did for those who put real money on the line - and therefore, it's MORE predatory than an expansion model. At least those prices are generally fixed and you are 100% assured to get the thing you pay for with those.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

12-Sep-2023 03:39:39

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

It's also a bit misleading to suggest that Treasure Hunter isn't predatory when Jagex has a tendency to reduce the amount of keys you can purchase with oddments, or the audacity to attempt to make keys a premium by removing them from daily challenges.

If you do what Jagex has been doing with free keys regularly then the demand for those keys you don't -have- to pay for increases to a point where players feel like they DO have to pay to obtain them.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

12-Sep-2023 03:45:05 - Last edited on 12-Sep-2023 03:45:34 by H 1 L D A

Jul

2007

Smasherley

Posts: 2,090 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

In it's current form Treasure Hunter could be considered underaged gambling

This isn't about getting keys to buy XP, this is gambling with your money for a cosmetic release such as a walk override with an extremely ridiculous drop rate.

Sometimes the "rare" item is 1 in 5000 keys.

There has to be law breaks in the way Treasure Hunter acts to the age of some players. This is not an 18+ game. Gambling was removed along time ago for reasons of law. Treasure hunter has become worse and worse with every update. The released upgrade can be as rare as a champion scroll and it requires spending your money to get it.

The Hero pass is something I cant quite understand, I do understand in the sense they seem to have wanted to nerf both Yak Track and Daily Challenges in one fell swoop.

Less XP, no free treasure hunter keys.. No control over what skill needs to be trained.

When I open Hero pass, every DAY without fail the skill required to train is one of my 200m skills. Now I can change this but I am penalised by having to PAY with vis wax (alebit 10 is not the point but rather the principle of the thing) that to train this new content properly I need to train summoning nearly every day which is 200m

I understand daily challenges are coming back and rightly so, i dont understand why they were removed in the first place other than to penalise the player base. But in removing dailies they have disabled the ability to lock off tasks for maxed skills. Even in their update, they've added a way that COSTS ME to change the 200m skill from being asked. Not giving me the free ability to lock it off from possibility in the first place

In one respect the crying and moaning worked... They made changes however I do not think "we did it" and I do not think it was a success.

The buffs were benefits to the player. I was using some of them.

Removing them was a hinderance. We now get even less for our time.

12-Sep-2023 05:25:33 - Last edited on 12-Sep-2023 05:33:16 by Smasherley

Dec

2005

Killashandra

Posts: 1,357 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Smasherley said :
In it's current form Treasure Hunter could be considered underaged gambling

This isn't about getting keys to buy XP, this is gambling with your money for a cosmetic release such as a walk override with an extremely ridiculous drop rate.

Sometimes the "rare" item is 1 in 5000 keys.

There has to be law breaks in the way Treasure Hunter acts to the age of some players. This is not an 18+ game. Gambling was removed along time ago for reasons of law. Treasure hunter has become worse and worse with every update. The released upgrade can be as rare as a champion scroll and it requires spending your money to get it.

You're right, it is gambling and the UK government has put laws in place to prevent gambling for real life money in games that are played by underaged players. However, it seems that Jagex has got around that somehow by 'showing' the possible rewards irrespective of how slim the chances are of getting some of those rewards.

Personally, I think that the gambling element should be removed completely, there's evidence enough to show that children will be drawn into paying more and more to get those rewards. Even gambling with ingame money can lead to problems further down the road. The UK government need to take further action.

12-Sep-2023 10:51:19

Mixed Slush

Posts: 299 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Killashandra said :
Smasherley said :
In it's current form Treasure Hunter could be considered underaged gambling

This isn't about getting keys to buy XP, this is gambling with your money for a cosmetic release such as a walk override with an extremely ridiculous drop rate.

Sometimes the "rare" item is 1 in 5000 keys.

There has to be law breaks in the way Treasure Hunter acts to the age of some players. This is not an 18+ game. Gambling was removed along time ago for reasons of law. Treasure hunter has become worse and worse with every update. The released upgrade can be as rare as a champion scroll and it requires spending your money to get it.

You're right, it is gambling and the UK government has put laws in place to prevent gambling for real life money in games that are played by underaged players. However, it seems that Jagex has got around that somehow by 'showing' the possible rewards irrespective of how slim the chances are of getting some of those rewards.

Personally, I think that the gambling element should be removed completely, there's evidence enough to show that children will be drawn into paying more and more to get those rewards. Even gambling with ingame money can lead to problems further down the road. The UK government need to take further action.

The conservatives won't be elected in the next election in England they won't be let off much longer.
You should stop wasting your time trying to talk to Jagex and get in the press. I know plenty of top journalists in the big newspapers. It's in the news in England. Everyone is watching. Double down people.

12-Sep-2023 15:15:55

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

H 1 L D A said :
You know who engages in that kind of "expansion"-style gameplay you don't like because it divides the community?

Every RuneScape player that owns membership. You DO have to pay to reach places like the Arc, Anachronia, and Um. Already.

That form of transaction has been okay for decades, and it's against that form of transaction that makes literally every other paywall in the game feel overly excessive to players.

Why should there be a loot-box system that players can pay for ON TOP of a game that's already got a subscription-based model? Or a cosmetic store or other marketplaces? Or a battle pass you can buy progress on? With all due respect to F2P, most players in RS3 are members and pay that fee already.

If Treasure Hunter ONLY used keys that were obtainable via in-game activities, then this wouldn't be a harmful MTX matter and it also wouldn't even be harmful outside of the majority of players being too unlucky to pull the big prize. Because you CAN buy keys, and infinitely do so until you run out of whatever real life currency you are using to do so, it turns into a casino that can have just as big a stake as the Duel Arena did for those who put real money on the line - and therefore, it's MORE predatory than an expansion model. At least those prices are generally fixed and you are 100% assured to get the thing you pay for with those.

Regular members aren't expansions and game modes that require extra payment on top of recurring membership. They are absolutely different things.

Regular membership divide free players from members only, but paid to play expansions and game modes further divide members into different groups and different tiers of members.

If you think expansions and paid for gamemodes are "acceptable", why are the long existing TH and Runecoins that came over 10 years ago, and way way before paid for games modes and Partnership hit Jagex's games?

12-Sep-2023 16:21:43

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Killashandra said :
Smasherley said :
In it's current form Treasure Hunter could be considered underaged gambling

This isn't about getting keys to buy XP, this is gambling with your money for a cosmetic release such as a walk override with an extremely ridiculous drop rate.

Sometimes the "rare" item is 1 in 5000 keys.

There has to be law breaks in the way Treasure Hunter acts to the age of some players. This is not an 18+ game. Gambling was removed along time ago for reasons of law. Treasure hunter has become worse and worse with every update. The released upgrade can be as rare as a champion scroll and it requires spending your money to get it.

You're right, it is gambling and the UK government has put laws in place to prevent gambling for real life money in games that are played by underaged players. However, it seems that Jagex has got around that somehow by 'showing' the possible rewards irrespective of how slim the chances are of getting some of those rewards.

Personally, I think that the gambling element should be removed completely, there's evidence enough to show that children will be drawn into paying more and more to get those rewards. Even gambling with ingame money can lead to problems further down the road. The UK government need to take further action.

We know what is gambling, the real gambling regulated under real world regulatsions. TH isn't but Jagex knows what else is gambling. That's why they prohibit players under 18 and/or from certain country like Belgium and Netherland from playing their games that give out real life prices of cash values.

12-Sep-2023 16:25:13

Feb

2008

CaptKoloth

Posts: 10,676 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dilbert2001 said :

We are not in the old days, we are in 2023. You may say technically there was no Construction in RSC because it came out just months later but it was a buying skill even in early 2006.

Necromancy may be fast to level, but it is not as buying as Herblore and Construction. Note that we are talking about MTX, not just about what skills should take longer time to max out.

That is the point, Necromancy has not even been introduced to MTX yet. But it is already a joke with experience rates. No, the experience rates in RS3 are a total joke. Necromancy is supposed to mainly be a combat skill. Not a bought non combat skill.

We should consider the old days. Many players went to OSRS because they prefered the old days. OSRS has been somewhat destroyed by some of its newer content. But basically it still has that retro feel.

I do not care what anybody says, But over 2k players with maxed experience is just an example how RS3 needs to go back to the old way of doing things. More DIY and less pay to win. There really isn't any accomplishments anymore.

12-Sep-2023 18:52:38

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Can We Talk About MTX Now?