forums.rs

Forums

R Quark (Rare Quark) FC / CC Thread is locked

Quick find code: 90-91-764-65641328

of 104
Brad 76

Brad 76

Posts: 1,380 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
These max stack + items are traded frequently whether by ranks or non ranks without being reported.
The only level of scrutiny of these trades is a confirmation which is not really any level of scrutiny at all, those who want to abuse the system can whether there are confirmations or not.
These items are controlled very easily once they leave the ge by multiple alt accounts with max offers in ge to catch the ones that are placed into the ge to maintain control of them by the super rich.
Those that trade in these items frequently know what the true price of them are, and withhold many of their trades on the low end, artificially slowing the lower end of te ranges downward trend.

In light of this three clear choices.

1. Stop pcing them all together
2. Require at least some scrutiny, which in all reality is not really scrutiny just a hoop to jump thru. ( continue to put forth price ranges that are at best inaccurate and at worst an attempt to control the prices of these items)
3. Go back to not requiring confirmations from ranks and for that matter really no sense having confirmations at all, the trades that are not made by those who control most of the hats are "hunted down" and trade is removed anyway. (If at least some level of scrutiny is not promoted by the ranks i see little reason why any level of scrutiny is needed, unless some only want trades confirmed in a certain price range)

To be honest I've grown weary of hearing about all the "problems" that are associated with these items, any reasonable attempt at adjusting the method or scrutiny over these items, the accusations and drama that have surrounded these range items for years, the ease at which these items can be manipulated even under confirmed trade scrutiny, and the lack of support the community has in confirming these trades my vote is to discontinue pcing them altogether. Now let the fan club of Brad 76 increase exponentially (sarcasm intended)

21-Oct-2015 14:55:53

Brad 76

Brad 76

Posts: 1,380 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As you can see I have no problem stating my opinion for all to see, I realize that most of the ranks in R quark rarely agree with me. I also realize the last two ideas I have put forth are radically different than what we have done in the past on these over max stack items but see little benefit in continuing to do the same things and expecting things to "fix" themselves. If the community as a whole does not want to be bothered with any level of scrutiny on these items (confirmation) I see little benefit in continuing to give the community a price point for these items at all. Why should we go thru the trouble, accusations, drama etc etc only for many of the same people to refuse to jump thru a simple hoop of confirming their trades so we can at least put forth a reasonably accurate adverage price point or range.
If the majority of these trades go unreported for whatever reason already why even bother putting forth any price point average or range that we have little to no confidence is even accurate. The elephant in the room is quite obvious, the only ones who really "need" the information we provide on these items (someone looking to buy or sell that aren't a veteran street trader) won't even be bothered to confirm the trades they make so why bother?

Respectfully Brad 76

This entire issue could be fixed instantly by Jagex very easily by allowing items to be bought and sold for either gp or shards (or similar item that has guaranteed value from a npc, or even different denominations of gp), but apparently that's not an option they have considered to this point.

21-Oct-2015 15:18:16 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2015 16:05:15 by Brad 76

S z
Sep Member 2021

S z

Posts: 16,741 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thanks Hyles! :) Hope irl's okay, lol
#TalkToYouInAWeek
--
Trips said :
So are we going to try something else at this next rank session for another month since trades are rarely getting confirmed now? I think we should revert the rule change. I only voted for the change last sess because of the Wes / Shirly confusion (not their fault at all - was just confusing #notnamingandshaming)

Actually talking to Ceneres about this last night, he made a good suggestion. We should change veteran ranks at the session and move up any vet smilies-> vet recruits that have been active and move down any inactive vet recruits-> vet smilies. My own input: perhaps by means of a vote (e.g. Trips: Shirly's really active and cool, let's make her recruit! / Quarkies: +++++ - unk +++ ), or at least give them their own "time slot" after we promote ranks*****;-- this is all transparent/fair

If Lyra is able to kindly post a list of vet ranks (who are Recruit and who are Smilies), it'd be easy for compilers (-looks at elf-) to keep track of :P Andy Murray to win Wimbledon 2022.

21-Oct-2015 17:55:32 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2015 18:00:51 by S z

Trips
Oct Member 2014

Trips

Posts: 1,766 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Names I can remember, would be nice to notify which should be added to or removed from recruit. Feel free to list any names I may have forgotten too this is just off the top of my head and past rank list

Recruits

Falador
Fun to Play
Zaka
Phileep246
Helicopter
Minnirexaur
MVP Wes
Shirly
D* Raw**
Elf Matthews
Total
Mutilared*us
Weakpig


Smilies

Jimm*
**owdogsz
Charm Quark
Curees
Robin Hood
King Flipper
Farming Nemo
I Harv I
Derrick Rose
Scope I
Dorky
9th
Cyderman
Chesse Pie
*dogg
Bt*
13th Demon
Nyam2
Imbue Chaos
Da Littleman
Iheb
Nuke W0lf
Lady Divine
I***
Swift Owns U
Hedi
5742
Hendrik73
Tombstone308
ES**2
Pound
Nyam
Gifted Demon
Denzu
Nessatrix
S A V H
Almostlost
0 07
M*Harman
Harmy
Zipl
Rare Quark
Wildy
Doolodes
**8
Elvis
Primrose
Hween Set
Mr Hi Man
Cheezer
Quixilver10
Slay_alot
Instant buy
Airing
Rc God
Divine Ploow
Enrichments
Cleopatre
Pepsiman
Big D Doggg
Cuber
Camelot
kefuq/PCS
Skill Cape
WideOldMan
Showtek
Quenjay

Might add all ranks on here later to make it easier for Lyra to update the front page.

21-Oct-2015 18:19:58 - Last edited on 22-Oct-2015 22:00:40 by Trips

Brad 76

Brad 76

Posts: 1,380 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The attempt to bring back confirmations on all range trades was destined to fail.

Was presented as a trial, allowing those ranks that have no desire to confirm their trades a way to withdraw on purpose to get it reverted.

A lack of confirmations has always been justified by an increase in reports, of course avoiding the idea that the ranges that we set are outdated immedietly, are based only on the trades they want us to know about and are inherently inaccurate, so the argument that unconfirmed trades will "help" us keep the prices more up to date is simply false.

One must ask if te reasons these trades are not bein confirmed truly is the other party (non ranks) why would we continue to put forth any price point on items that the non ranks won't even be bothered to help us keep "accurate".

The question also need to be asked, what is the real reason that one would argue to remove the only level of scrutiny we have on these trades (trivial as it might be), if the only reason that's put forth (keeps the prices more up to date) is out of date and/or inaccurate as soon as we make them.

These items are the only ones we PC that are based totally on trust in the reporting process, I would certainly think that it's not unreasonable to require both names and confirmations to be counted toward our next inaccurate and outdated range we establish.

No idea how confirmations was ever removed under the premise that it makes our prices more accurate when there is no way to produce an accurate range, they are both outdated and inherently inaccurate as soon as we make them because of the process whether confirmed or non confirmed trades are used.

22-Oct-2015 14:50:24

Brad 76

Brad 76

Posts: 1,380 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If unconfirmed rank trades somehow make our "ranges" more accurate why not allow our ranks to report their street trades on the other items we PC? Don't we trust them?
If they somehow make our ranges more accurate wouldnt the same information work to make our other items "more accurate"?

Hopefully even though my effort is most likely futile I'm trying to show the process that we use to establish "ranges" is wrought with problems and potential for both unneeded accusations and potential manipulation, there is no possible way to actually give an accurate and up to date range based completely on trust so why bother?

The price point the ge mid offeres has a primary purpose to only allow items to move up or down at a gradual pace to (give pause) to player that would trade either far above or far below basically as a way to say "be careful". You can still trade far above or far below this amount as I've already referenced the half jug of wine. A simple price point would remove the drama on what the range would be as it would simply be an adverage easily calculated and could work as the ge does on a max move up or down. The price point does not establish a flipping range which is against our core mechanic as a chat. Understanding that even a price point would be inaccurate and outdated as soon as it's made just like everything else we do as prices change all the time. If the information we give is potentially inaccurate and outdated why complicate the process with more inaccurate or outdated information (range).

No matter what we set the price point or range at, the players decide what they are willing to buy or sell items for, so IMO it makes little sense to continue to work on a problem that will never be fixed. IMO either simplify it (removing the drama and accusations) or do away with pcing these items altogether.

Once again these are my opinions, I'm a team player, we have been working on this problem for years time to make some headway.

22-Oct-2015 15:30:26

Trips
Oct Member 2014

Trips

Posts: 1,766 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The problem is that most people will only conform when it benefits them in some way. They know how the system works and think they know how to get it in their favor. Also lurers/ stakers/ hackers rarely conform their trades because they don't care what the quark ranges is or what trends are.

Also when ranks don't need confirmations, I've seen many only report trades in their favor the same way non ranks selectively confirm. But that's the case for all ge items too. If you get a really low buy, you're most likely not going to report it in hopes of selling at the current pc.

The issue is that there are flaws in people's morals and honesty. I don't think there are any simple solutions as you've said above Brad, so honestly I'd be fine with have an average that gets updated... every trade? Multiply current range by 9 add in new trade then divide by 10 to get new average? That would be the best way to keep prices most up to date?

Idk we can hopefully try something else at the next session.

22-Oct-2015 19:32:18 - Last edited on 22-Oct-2015 19:35:43 by Trips

Elf Mathews

Elf Mathews

Posts: 2,601 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
---
Reinforced by what Trips said above, I don't believe it's possible to decide on a guideline price, for the items at discussion, reliable enough to be called a "range".

---
I humbly suggested on last rank session that ranges were changed to a single number, so I'm generally supportive about Trip's idea above; to change "ranges" line into "averages" :P . It provides players with enough perception as to what price these items are roaming around, and leaves much slimmer openings for complaints.

---
Regarding the trade confirmations subject, I remain skeptical.

-- looks at s z -- Would be awesome if post #10 was filled :3.
7/ 27 120s
||
3/ 27 200m's

No longer playing.

23-Oct-2015 05:14:43 - Last edited on 23-Oct-2015 05:18:10 by Elf Mathews

Quick find code: 90-91-764-65641328 Back to Top