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[#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

Posts: 1,670 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
*pokes*

Where Timo is?

What Timo does? (other than busiating H/S and things)

Is Timo well?



Would you be able to be online, for Sunday? Kid Kelvage might be comming to join in a bit more, then; and I think he'd like to catch up with some of the Goppers he's lost contact with : D

16-Oct-2013 01:14:54 - Last edited on 16-Oct-2013 02:48:54 by [#8H61NVN5U]

Timome

Timome

Posts: 1,045 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
First snøfall yesterday :D !

Have been with my Father in Malangen. I have been painting (not artistically) while listening to audiobooks on speaker connected to computer.

I have time to be online tonight (though not yet, because I have meeting-type-things, and not long into the night) and the evenings coming, but not on the night between Saturday and Sunday because I have a night-type-thing-meetingish :s.

I hope I catch Kid, though that is unlikely. : )

EDIT for below:

[#8H61NVN5U] said :


0wned, 01/09/13, full 16/09/13 : D !


Well we're still further north than you, #()%/#%.

And yes, I quite like doing stuff. : )

Which Mr? 9h3 and Physid did half a backup duo for the tournament (confidential results until match declared !), but then Physid had to go.
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

16-Oct-2013 12:18:58 - Last edited on 16-Oct-2013 16:50:47 by Timome

[#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

Posts: 1,670 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Timome said :
First snøfall yesterday :D !


0wned, 01/09/13, full 16/09/13 : D !


That sounds like a pleasent passing of time; I hope you are finding it so, and not one born from sadness.

It has been somewhat empty, at times; often having to send clanperson in, and they sit alone there, which is a shame, and worry...




P.S: I heard from Mr, that there were some duo-tourney scores; they have not been added to the thread?

16-Oct-2013 16:04:13 - Last edited on 16-Oct-2013 16:09:41 by [#8H61NVN5U]

Timome

Timome

Posts: 1,045 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think 5050 is a very good way for learning GOP, and I suggest that it be included in the reportoire of helpers in the THC (hmm, it needs an alternative abbreviation). 5050 satisfies the newcomers' motivation for tokens, it puts pressure off both the newcomers (5050 is a calmer environment) and the helpers, rendering the task of helping newcomers less demanding, making it possible for more folks to feel able and be willing to help out.

5050 gives more time for all participants to be introduced to the game in between their turns, and it also allows them to watch otherfolks play GOP -- nodoubtedly a very good way for learning and being inspired.

With our strict form of helping while playing GOP, I can't really handle it well when more than 2 newcomers come at a time. I can't control the games. 5050 lessens the demand for qualification that the helpers need to have in order to help out in cases of 2+ newcomers.

Yesterday, I rebuked a newcomer's suggestion of making a confusing game into a 5050, though I in afterthought consider that to have been a better idea.

This, of course, would only be an emergency solution or so, or a preferred way of some helpers, unlike Me and Yusou.

*suggested*
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

16-Oct-2013 20:51:16 - Last edited on 18-Oct-2013 06:56:18 by Timome

[#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

Posts: 1,670 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
takk.


Things against 5050:


Match fixing is against the law in many countries, and is unter International Sporting Regulations; so if GOP is to be considered a 'thing' it should really come under this, if we show it any respect.



It destroys honnour, in that it is not trying, and does not allow the provision of help, entirely (neither do other methods, but it doesn't solve anything).



It encourages the token-minded aspect of gameplay in newcommers.



It counts as a 'trust trade' under Game Rules, and isn't technically allowed, though J-Mod have, in the past, said that it is ok-in-game, they do not all say this..



We would not be allowed to advertise on the forums.



There is already a 5050 chat, which uses subterfuge to advertise on the forums, something which GA never did (they did try a few times, but I remember escalation of their threads, and they stopped after that: it was never a project, after they knew the rules), because even they knew it was wrong.



It would bring different groups of people in, and spread the wrong word abou the chat.. (also bringing conflict from the other group).



There are some who would make it their emut to crash any 5050, and it would cause problems between the elements of some communities which are currently neutral/supporting.


- Some of the helpers would leave, and they are good players, and much needed for the teaching of new people.


- It would prevent anyone from those groups, who currently pop in to lend a hand, now and then (on the spur of the moment, or who just happen to be in that world, playing games), and from playing a game with FC people; this would further encrease difficulties in the getting of people at certain times, when they would rather be playing their own games, and just come out of not minding who they play against, as long as they are playing, so don't mind if with A or Z.

16-Oct-2013 20:55:55 - Last edited on 18-Oct-2013 16:41:26 by [#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

Posts: 1,670 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
People would manipulate the situation to use token grinding, and be harder to reach out to, to get the idea of playing for fun to them.



They would get the wrong idea about what the GOP community is like, and any desiscions based theron, would be fallacies, and so we would get the wrong ones staying.



They would see our view of GOP as just token-related.



5050 is as hard to enforce as a normal game, if not harder: in a normal game, all you have to do is teach and try hard; in 5050, you have to maintain something.




'Oh we really love this game as a game, which is why we want you to token grind it'.




If we removed the thread from the forums (which we should, in all honnour, do, if we included 5050), then where on Yelxibt would we get players from? The data I have (albeit only based on about 1/2 the hours), shows that less than 5% come directly from word of mouth; and, while this may grow.. so does forumpresence, and probably at a reasonably proportional rate, at least at first.




Sollution really is to get more helpers, and try and disuade the pervasiveness of attitude of breaking rules is ok..

Just because 'we don't see what's wrong with it, so why shouldn't we do what we like', is there, doesn't mean it's any more right than those who made the rules... after all, we all legally agreed to stick to the rules, and a bound to that egreement to uphold.





Mistr said to pass on that Phat has been helping out a lot with new people, teaching what he knows (seems eager to impart what he has learned, which is a good way or testing what you know, and wording it into your own thoughtspeak, to understand yourself).

Other people added to list:

Light
Kiwi (that reminds me.. Kivi was going to be helping out more.. I must poke)
TBC..

18-Oct-2013 16:43:55 - Last edited on 18-Oct-2013 16:57:07 by [#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

Posts: 1,670 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ja, and when is 00wn1 going to make his puzzles thread? I had hashtaan email asking what had happened to this.. (on GoAc, so it can be transferred..)

Person won't start till everyone's done what they agreed... which might be never.. in which case, shall I start doing some sort of weekly edition thing here, or in the FC thread?



Edit:
News thing Oo.

Ja, it is good he does that, but it was more his helping out people that was the prompt for this, I think.

Ok, bakkup !

18-Oct-2013 18:30:43 - Last edited on 19-Oct-2013 22:21:19 by [#8H61NVN5U]

Timome

Timome

Posts: 1,045 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
5050:
Hmm, yes. The point of the THC is not to help folks with their own motivations, it's to crowd out their motivations and replace it with a nobler one. The goal of 5050 is tokkengrinding, even when it has good educational perks for GOP (having time to watch and talk in between altars). Gop Addict had their few of interested goppers birthed from their 5050ing, though they were attracted because GOP is fun, despite doing 5050.

We should (if we could) educate (/inspire folks to become) helpers more actively (though I know not how). Our format is superior to 5050, though it makes being a helper more demanding.

I think I should strictly enforce evacuation of tokken-minded gopping, though not by admonishing folks for tokkeneating, but rather present a lifestyle (GOP) worth emulating.

The situation from which this discussion sprang was thus: Pip and some newcomers had entered a confusing and unfair round, so Pip tried to diffuse the situation by offering for it to be a 5050, though I told him that that may not be a good idea, so the game continued to frustrate the tokkenmotivation of the less experienced team (this much because I'm very slow, and that makes it difficult to understand what is right). Pip knows how to help with 5050, but not so much with competitive games, requiring him to assess and arrange that both teams are fair.

Phat !
Both 9h3 and I have noticed apart from each other that he 2-tik holds 0o. He understands backfeeding and leaving. We even hopped from EW coord to SN coord while in game, so he knows how to adapt ! Wonderfwl gopper. : )

Puzzles
Puzzles thing surely must be in its own thread, otherwise lots of posts regarding puzzles will fill threads where it crowds out attention from relevant posts?

EDIT: And the duo scores were 9h3 and Physid's half backup 2vs0.
EDIT2: Would a thread for puzzles also have quick-tips posts and frontpage feature?
EDIT3: *Thumbs up post bilow !!!*
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

19-Oct-2013 16:48:26 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2013 10:51:10 by Timome

[#8H61NVN5U]

[#8H61NVN5U]

Posts: 1,670 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Oo Apparently you've been away a lot today, too..

alt er bra?




For some reason, I forgot that I had posted this, and was hoping the reason it was at the top of a search, was that there had been a reply... mayb I should sleep... but persuading Mr to, first, is my current aim..

26-Oct-2013 02:27:59 - Last edited on 26-Oct-2013 04:17:18 by [#8H61NVN5U]

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