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Yusou Bhoroi

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If there is a score ranking system, that works, and is accurate, then they can play to increase ranking, or to try and beat those who are of similar ranking, rather than see the only reason to compete as winning the top prize. Allowing folks a community to belong to, and something to compete with (that they can see, and relate to), is important as a reason not to just give up.

6: Allcomers is an Americanism - it just means all who turn up, regardless of ability.

7: Ja, though there are problems even with that - needs to be people who'll appeal to all players (whether individually, or between the teams), and they need to be folks who are willing to spend the time at the games (all of them, so it's a follow-through process).. which would amount to a lot of playtime.

8?: Boring to watch - and I don't just mean for GOP. If there's nothing inherrantly exciting, relatable, or understandable (a majority of the strategies and techniques that are used, won't be), then people will not watch it. It needs to be something that all, or at least the majority (and the majority won't have seriously tried the minigames competitively), will find appealing, and easy to follow - the teaching process, along with relating to other humans doing it, is precisely that.

I think that with GOP (and some other minigames), reward isn't directly related to effort, or skill (in fact, in some ways, it's the opposite), which is the problem - you get rewarded for avoiding playing it, more than you do for actually playing it.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback; it's still unfinished, but hope I'll be able to work things in with greater clarity.

28-Jan-2015 11:39:14

Yusou Bhoroi

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Oh, btw, won't be in the country, at the end of Feb (possibly early March), as the organ is elsewhere! (not sure if using one in Nederlands, or Spain, atm.. as the intended one is undergoing repairs, and not sure whether other places are convenient for all). So will probably be inactive on Scape, for that time (unless get connect to network, might get somone to cover, if spot is free, Idk).

Just out of interest, do you have any novel ideas that you think might be interesting, for us to do? Never know, if have time, might be able to try a few things.

28-Jan-2015 11:47:26 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2015 11:47:38 by Yusou Bhoroi

Timome

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Yusou Bhoroi said :
Just out of interest, do you have any novel ideas that you think might be interesting, for us to do? Never know, if have time, might be able to try a few things.

Hmm, I don't have any such ideas, but I could work on such ideas; it would be easier to work on such ideas if I am notified of what kinds of ideas you mean to ask me of. Of course, I could suggest that we try to build a Friendly Artificial Intelligence that can solve all our problems. : P

Reason, compassion and GOP.

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28-Jan-2015 20:50:01

Yusou Bhoroi

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Usually, after doing the scheduled bits (or even in between, sometimes, if someone necessary hasn't turned up + either can't practice more/is stuck with something for overtrying, and need distraction for a bit before going back), we experiment with anything that seems like a good/interesting concept, with the available resources.

Not given you much info, but anything crazy usually goes.

(Bear in mind I can't afford to replace the organ, and would probably get fired even if I could

).
I'll email some of the details, if time, and as they're confirmed (unfortunate the problems with things.. not even sure it'll be happening, if can't find solutions :/), don't really want to be giving them on here.

If you're on, there are a couple of players who you'd probably enjoy meeting.. my mind has gone blank on the one who is sticking around most (always, the more I think, the more it goes. *Dreadnite), but Ed Force One expressed interest in commuting back for more, later (for fun

). Cosmic is possibly still on, too, he's there for robes, but wishes to learn a bit while getting them.

I'll edit the name in if I remember and have another free bit (probably be tomorrow morning/mid day ish, as I'm going to be needed for the next bits). Hope you have a good night, anyway. Have care, and make care.

Wow, these meds make me so tired.. only been up 38, and feels more like 70 odd, think will have to have some rest. :/

28-Jan-2015 21:23:18 - Last edited on 29-Jan-2015 13:15:57 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

__________________________________________________________________

However, I have faith in beneficial changes commuting from this, as was seen with things like Mod Lee's first events, when he joined JAGEX: Many small, and easy changes to a few activities were made, after the events. Things that we'd been asking for Years to be done, both on the forums, and in but reports.. yet it took someone at JAGEX to actually encounter them, and understand how they impacted play, for them to be dealt with.

While far more such things still exist, and would only be 'contacted' with deeper use, it's good to see that first hand experience really helps in understanding problems, in whatever way they are come to. As I've said, in my opinion, even without this hope, the many of their benefits would warrant some such programme (or the variations mooted), even if each were taken individually, so I really think that some form of deep/exhaustive-contact fuselage of the content, would prove benificial on so many levels, and make either content, or culture (or both!), at the end of it, which would be the best in RuneScape.

-is totally biased- : p

Once it's known whether/how much support from CM team would be available, then I can set about approaching those interested in helping with such things, and the formation of setups for the best ways to do whichever is chosen (if any) for each activity.

29-Jan-2015 12:58:13 - Last edited on 30-Jan-2015 09:55:26 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

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Heist:

- Has a fanbase who play just for fun, and have a great tolerance of those wishing to play too, there seem (this is just going by my own experiences, and that of a couple of firends; though I'm well aware that single experiences can be misleading!) to be fewer here willing to share knowledge, though ~ so encouragement for helping others may well promote that.

- There are quite a diverse range of tactics used, and little extras that few seem aware of, many of which could be helpful to know, if explained well ~ so following the teaching process would help make people aware of them, and see what fun it can be to play, perhaps encouraging the willingness to try it out.

- There a quite a lot of problems with the game, with various glitches, and a few problems with the overall mechanics (turn 'glitch' being one of the most serious, in that it's impossible for those who experience it to play fairly, as it's a game-engine or rendering problem, which makes it obvious who is a player and who isn't. It isn't their fault, but it means they actively have to ignore it to allow actual gameplay) ~ detailed experience of these problems could lead to sollutions.

- Suffers from non-play being more 'efficient' than play ~ encouragement to try, and extolling the values of, active play, could lead to a change in general attitudes, and thus more using the time to have fun, even when going for xp.

- The rewards are already very good, however there could be something done to r*tweak the balancing, to allow play to be at least as efficient as non-play * which would be easier with a full understanding of all the ways it can be used.

29-Jan-2015 13:24:18 - Last edited on 30-Jan-2015 09:51:08 by Yusou Bhoroi

5quarecrow

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I finally managed to find the time to jump through it all and quite a lot of the ideas seem decent to me.

I have to mention that, in the same way as you use your experience from GOP, I will use my experience from FoG to better imagine some things.

The problem here is getting players together for the competition. From my experience scheduled tournaments usually do not go as planned (except for Clan Wars for some reason). The "train a JMod" variant clearly has an advantage here, as the competitors have better ways of communicating with Jagex

Some minigames probably don't need the competition to be held at a certain time. The GOP competition could even be similar to seasonal highscores - a player signs up for an apprenticeship, and at the end of the given time period the player goes through one or several supervised games and the highest scores count.
+less demanding for the competitors' schedule
-defending couldn't be a part of this competition - no player interaction
-brings less thrill to those who'd want to watch the games

If there was a FoG competition, direct confrontation would be needed (and thus all the match-scheduling stuff). Also, with the importance of combat stats in the minigame, games between JMods/prominent players would be much fairer - you cannot expect a level 40 to beat a level 126 when they are both trying their best to win and when they both have been teached what to do.

Things that should be added alongside with these competitions:
*training grounds (a way to enter the minigame with just 2 people - rewards would be restricted)
*a way to observe the minigame arena (would have to be restricted in FoG's case since people could point out their friends' opponents' location)

Oops, I have somehow skipped the "workarounds" part... some parts of this posts are probably just repeating what has been said there. Play for fun!

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04-Feb-2015 00:23:35

Yusou Bhoroi

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Thank you, 5quare!

It's good to see that the benefits aren't entirely in my head (

), though we'll have to wait and see whether, and what what sort of thing C.M. may be willing to support. I've passed the qfc and explanations to some in the Conq teaching circles (not got to most, yet), and poked a little towards discussions with competitive Heist players, but am unsure of how far to ask people (yet), because of not wishing to get people's hopes up (or indeed waste their time on reusability and adaptations, at this stage - even if we could muddle through a less-benificial, and less well run version for ourselves, at a later date).

However, all and any feedback would be helpful, as it can assist with choosing and designing the tournaments; show solidarity and determination; and give better ideas.

When we've got all groups on board, and have deliberated a basic format, I think a dedicated thread, with proper sections for each group (oh' the joys of being able to link to individual posts - should allow that to be manageable with several section posters), would work better in explaining the format, along with how it applies to each activity, and the benefits it could bring (whichever type is chosen).

04-Feb-2015 12:01:35 - Last edited on 04-Feb-2015 12:02:17 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

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I think I'll start planning the layout and operation methods of the central thread - as although much is done in head, and can't get on with actively organising and doing reusability options for each activity till I know whether there's any chance of CM support.. there are a few notes and tests for spacings, which I can do to speed things up, if it can go ahead. It may also be a good outline for if it has to be independent, as a base for gaining people to fill the right slots.

Until I know what/if support can be given, and for which forms, then it's hard to design a thread to cater for it, as they're very different in organisation (even though there are similar aspects in common, they have to be in different places and forms). Not wishing to poke too many folks, at this stage, if there won't be support, as even if we can get a bodged version for ourselves, it would need a lot more groundwork done before incorporating groups (needs to get streamers, and ways of doing it unobtrusively and low-demanding; competers organised and formalised - which would take a lot to fit in varying groups to the timetables of a few people with the same times.. and long term availability and willingness; et.cetera.) which is built-in if CM.

Forum and Wiki usage needs to be done right, too (need to promote the JAGEXWiki >: )), so would have to look into Wiki linkage, if solo.

Not wishing to make then hurry decisions, but just trying to get as much useful stuff done as possible (most things differ too much in execution, depending on outcome, to do before, so 'doing them' wouldn't be useful).
Anywhu, there may be a few empty posts, for a couple of pages, as I test outlines of stuff for spacing, before editing out.

07-Feb-2015 19:34:17 - Last edited on 07-Feb-2015 19:48:46 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

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If this becomes a thing, what aspects would be similar?

- Explaining and detailing what the competition from is, and how to set about setting one up.

- 'Recruiting' various activities' communities to assist CM, where appropriate (some forms require whole groups' cooperation, whereas others merely that of a few organisers).

- Establishing the duration and organisation for each tournament, based on prospective participation, and form of competition.

- Space for rules, details on timing*, requirements, contacting, listing participants, responses, keeping track of outcomes, and so on (for some competition forms, it will be necessary to have separate threads for the formation, and the actual live thread) , for each individual activity. Spacing for which varies too much between forms and activities.

Having looked at various competitions, and looked into different ways of presenting the different possible forms, none of the sections abovementioned seem to have enough crossover, other than in extra-necessary formatting - such as uniform (or indeed, diverse, where distinction between various activities is needed) titling, colouring, bulleting.

It's therefore impossible to do much, without at least knowing which form I should be making an example for.. doing multiple forms isn't doable, with the amount of free time I have (it'd take nigh on a Year, to do all possible forms of those already described, with disregarding other uses I need to put that time to - though I may be getting more free time, soon.. a lot is semi-free, and I can multitask some things, but not others).

A compromise would be to choose one form, the form which would be the choice for independent adaptation, and make an outline for that - at least so far as supported and independent versions overlap (and that, in itself, is very limiting). At least then, something is being done, and hopefully won't be useless in the long run.

10-Feb-2015 12:32:25

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