Forums

KABDE's chat III Thread is locked

Quick find code: 90-91-252-63854781

Sereg

Sereg

Posts: 9,292 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well, surely people are still using some combination of two styles, for the most part, right?

Ultimately, all I'm suggesting is that the styles selected across the team are optimized. Any specifics are beyond my knowledge, which is why my post contained so many questions.

Perhaps it would help if you clarified which setups are currently being used by dg4fun members. I would imagine melee/range, followed by melee/mage, but I could be off on that. Are there many tribrids? Any range/mage, or vice versa? My concept of primary is based on the assumption that one piece of armor was being bound, since the hood allowance is fairly new. It doesn't mean I intend that person to mostly be using one style over the second, simply that, with whichever armor piece they use, they'll be marginally more effective with one of the two. Are most hybrids actually binding two chest armors and two weapons?

What are people using, and what, in your opinion, should they be using? Are there multiple effective setups, at least within dg4fun rules? Or is there still a single set of ideal binds, like hood/plate/2h/hex was for random rushers?

If a single set of binds across the whole team is optimal, that's fine. But if people are still using various hybrid setups, then it would be ideal to arrange those, within a team, to be distributed according to usefulness - that is, let's not have everyone in a floor running their melee/range binds, because then we have no magic. Someone in that floor should bring melee/mage, at least.

Also, as far as action bars... are you switching those as well as armor/weapons/rings/attack styles/etc. every time you change combat styles? Is that efficient(with regards to the average player, not someone with starcraft APM)? I ask because, even before action bars, I had enough trouble switching from 2h to hex and adjusting my attack style(if I was on crush, I'd have needed to change the bow back to rapid) - I rarely bothered to adjust my ring (contnued)
Carve our dreams in sanguine stone/Strength corporeal and of mind
Walls of our flesh, bricks of our bone/Deadly intent to defend our kind

07-Jan-2013 18:37:16 - Last edited on 07-Jan-2013 18:43:01 by Sereg

Sereg

Sereg

Posts: 9,292 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
because by the time I'd done all that, whatever I'd wanted to shoot with my bow was already dead.

So... is it easier to switch now? Can it be done out of combat(rings used to be impossible to toggle when in combat)?

My suggestion with the action bars was to have one action bar for each bind loadout, including weapon switches and abilities for both styles, rather then having separate action bars for each style. However, if it's now possible to change action bars efficiently, in addition to everything else that needs to be changed over, maybe that's a better use of the bars. Keep in mind I've only ever seen action bars in f2p, which means I have only one available - I have no idea how to switch them, or how quickly that happens, or if anything prevents it.

Speaking of rings - how do those work now? I imagine they've changed alot as well. Have they become easier to work with(multiple quick toggles rather then just two, able to switch in combat, etc.)? Are there different "ideal" rings now then before? I expect the abilities have changed a bit.
Carve our dreams in sanguine stone/Strength corporeal and of mind
Walls of our flesh, bricks of our bone/Deadly intent to defend our kind

07-Jan-2013 18:41:45

Grotius
Aug Member 2023

Grotius

Posts: 7,720 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sereg, I don't want to rub it in but I just feel like I need to. Like I posted on the last page:

"I hope I've updated you, but most of the points you try to make are still based on a very outdated perspective. Unless you actually do some floors with us again, theorizing is pretty pointless. It's been almost a year bud :( "

Some of your 'suggestions' just scream "I have no practical experience!" and it means that I end up replying to them so that it doesn't become counterproductive to the efforts to have people understand eoc and all its implications, especially those who don't enjoy the changes (I'm among them btw).

On that note:

Micromanaging what players bring in-floor is not worth the effort. As long as they stick to the rules on binds and their uses, we'll be fine. There's no such thing anymore as a primal warrior without a surgebox pre-eoc.

Action bar switching is shift+#, with # ranging 1-5 for your bars. Very worth it.

Rings can quickswitch during combat now. Worth it.

Loadouts require a home teleport, not worth it.

07-Jan-2013 19:02:26 - Last edited on 07-Jan-2013 19:11:35 by Grotius

Jigabachi
Dec Member 2007

Jigabachi

Posts: 585 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
With all do respect Sereg, we are handling the situation concerning the EoC and are progressing well: Hybriding is a requirement for the chat for example.
Setups i have seen include but are not restricted to:
Primary weapon + Secondary weapon + Primary style body armour/Hood + Secondary style body armour/primary legs/tertiary weapon/blood necklace
for standard <120 people with 4 binds

this is working well right now with Dg as it is, but if the time comes that things are updated to be made stronger or more complex in their mechanics then we will adapt as we always have.

To be honest all or a lot of what you are asking has already been covered in previous discussions and a lot of the EoC's mechanics have already been sussed by the general population of our chat so all this will do is indulge someone who doesnt even play anymore, resulting in essentially walls of spam. Having said that we are here to help out people of our chat who need it.

I suggest to indulge your curiosity elsewhere to avoid this chat from filling with repetition of information that isnt even small but walls of text that are basically asking for the EoC to be spelled out in full.
We are more than happy to give you the information you desire and the forums themselves are there to help if you know where to look for it (Combat discussion, Youtube videos, Skype) just try not to devolve this thread into something just for you when we are trying to have it there for the active people of our chat.

07-Jan-2013 19:10:29 - Last edited on 07-Jan-2013 19:11:20 by Jigabachi

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

Posts: 1,392 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The most common binds are as follows

Tribriding
Hex/ Primal 2h/ Cele Cata Staff/ Hood + BN at 120

Hybrids
Hex/ Sag top/ Primal plate/ Primal 2h + BN at 120
Hex/ Sag top/ Cele top/ Cele cata staff + BN at 120
Primal 2h/ Primal plate/ Cele top/ Cele cata staff + BN at 120
Primal 2h/ Hex/ Hood/ BN
Primal 2h/ Cele Cata Staff/ Hood/ BN
Hex/ Cele Cata Staff/ Hood/ BN

I don't think bind loadouts differentiate more than that honestly. Some use sag short instead of Hex. Either is fine. For magic staffs it goes Cele Cata > gc unimbued > Doomcore. All 3 of those give you omni runes for combat.

About all you need for one combat style is the armor top for that style and the best t11 weapon for that style. With the exception of the hood for tribriding, but at the cost of the defense and lp boost the tops offer.

Reasonable amount of tribrids. Most of the keyers hybrid. I do currently, though I may try magic/range hybrid with the tops when I get 99 magic.

The most common hybrid set up I see is melee/range.

Armor has no offensive stats of any sort. Only defense and lp boost, or reducing accuracy in the other 2 combat styles.

In my opinion people need to be using any of the bind set ups I mentioned above. Tribriding may be preferable for some people. If you want to get down to it tribriding is the all around best way to dung now.

We don't really need to worry about setting up roles in floors before hand with the exception of a designated farmer for door pots. Most people tribrid or melee/range hybrid. You go in and start working on the things in the room most weak to your combat styles. Rangers instantly should go for books. Melees should get rangers instantly. Mages can pretty much kill stuff in most any order. The rangers and books are just 2 annoyances to the other styles because they die so slow.

You can easily switch between action bars by setting them up to a key binding. I have mine set to Shift + 1,2, or 3. Seemless bar switching when using it.

07-Jan-2013 19:11:28

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

Posts: 1,392 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ring switching can be done in combat now, however I honestly neglect it much of the time. I keep it on desperado mostly, and switch to beserker when I am meleeing and think about it.

Beserker simply increases 2 handed weapon accuracy
Tactican does the same for 1 handed
Desperado increases your ranged lvl or the damage done. Can't remember which, but it is now easily the best ring.

Most of the others aren't worth mentioning except maybe one of the magic rings, but I don't really know about them or use them.

Also hometeleporting is really really annoying. You click to home tele and 5 seconds later the action is stopped. Because it takes about 5 seconds of no combat to make your character shift from combat ready to being out of combat. Your adrenaline bar starts draining when this happens. But it interrupts using the hometeleport so you are literally forced to wait 5 seconds on top of waiting for your character to do the animation to hometele. It is no where near practical to base to switch loadout* except under circumstances where you are already at base. It's something that is at the least not to be relied upon.

Also it should be noted that while magic is usually better than anything else for killing mage weak enemies...you can just 2h smash your way through them with relative ease. They can be a little slow, but when you are maging it can be really frustrating for 3 melee/range hybrids to neglect the rangers and books in the room, and hulk smash the primal warriors, brutes, skeletal warriors, etc; to death before you can get your autocast going.

Also there are elemental weaknesses to some monsters. Fire, water, air, or earth; being weak to the respective surge spells. You can basically ignore that :P
Jagex made it near impossible to bother switching between surge spells.

07-Jan-2013 19:16:16 - Last edited on 07-Jan-2013 19:25:47 by Divi

Sereg

Sereg

Posts: 9,292 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nowhere in any of my posts did I recommend changing loadouts mid-floor. The only thing I've been trying to communicate is the importance of optimizing loadouts of party members before a floor starts, for maximum efficiency.

That's it.

Obviously, if everyone is tribridding, that's probably as good as you're going to get. If not, then it's worthwhile ensuring you have a good distribution of styles in the party.

That's all I'm suggesting. It's entirely independent of the mechanics of EoC. I'm not saying you need to change dg4fun policy about loadouts, and I'm not suggesting you micromanage people's binds. Just... if you usually go melee/range, and everyone else in your party is already melee/range, maybe go melee/mage. That's literally all I'm suggesting. Everyone has enough binds to make it work.

Maybe you do this anyway - I don't know. But that's not the response I've been getting. All I'm getting is "you don't know anything about EoC, so don't talk about it". While the specifics of optimization may depend on EoC, I'm not offering specifics, just the concept.

Thanks for the clarification, Divi.

Those bindsets are what I'm looking for. I assume that, in people's ten available binds, they have almost everything in those sets. Therefor, instead of picking a certain set, it's worthwhile picking up a different set depending on what the rest of the party is using.

Again, if you're tribridding, you can't get much more efficient then that. If not, then you can, occasionally, make a slightly stronger contribution by selecting one hybrid combination over another.

It may not need to be as detailed as the arrangement I proposed in my first post - just... fill whatever's currently lacking in the team.
Carve our dreams in sanguine stone/Strength corporeal and of mind
Walls of our flesh, bricks of our bone/Deadly intent to defend our kind

07-Jan-2013 21:43:21 - Last edited on 07-Jan-2013 21:52:22 by Sereg

Zohan
Aug Member 2010

Zohan

Posts: 1,627 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To put what you're asking as simply as possible:

1) EoC has made Dungeoneering a lot easier.
2) Because of ^, people who weren't confident solo pathing previously, now are.
3) Because of ^, the team will usually be off soloing their own paths.
4) Because of ^, it wouldn't be necessary to adjust your loadouts to the rest of the teams.


So how does a Range / Melee hybrid kill a Melee NPC if they're soloing a path? They Melee it.

I think that just about sums it up really, maybe, hopefully. :p

08-Jan-2013 00:40:37

Poison Mila
Nov Member 2020

Poison Mila

Posts: 1,591 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
But I still have a noob to level and I find all of your info really helpful. So, please never think that your time was wssted writing it - I am sure there are lurkers reading it too.

I wouldn't ask you these questions- but I will gladly take advantage of the fact someone else did. Thanks!

08-Jan-2013 14:28:11

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

Posts: 1,684 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well the problem is that the thread feels derailed when there are like 10 walls of text discussing the basics of dungeoneering that everyone who is in dg4fun already knows. Some of it is a good reminder to the rest of us of what we should be doing, yes. But most of it is really just not relevant. Like should we use a surge box? People are lazy and if they have to sift through walls of text explaining runescape, then they are probably going to miss the stuff relevant to them, like our new rule on hoods.

Small questions are ok. Big looooooooooooooooooong questions seem a bit out of place here. I am always willing to answer any simple question about how runescape works, just pm me. I know many others are perfectly willing as well.

08-Jan-2013 15:02:56

Quick find code: 90-91-252-63854781 Back to Top