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Buffdude1100

Buffdude1100

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Love all the new changes, they're great. Disallowing hoods to be used, promoting teaching others.... all great. +1 to you guys. When/if I become a lot more active again I may reapply. Good job to all the generals and congrats to Zohan, Whynot and Lucas.

01-Dec-2012 21:43:01

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

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Trialers, you get to decide who else becomes trialers. That means that if you wish to approve someone for the rank PM a general. Once a majority have given approval for someone they will become a trialer. Pick carefully :) .

02-Dec-2012 00:03:16

Applejuiceaj
Nov Member 2011

Applejuiceaj

Posts: 44,944 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Just read through the new updates regarding the chat. Overall they look good, but at the same time I feel there are a few things that just aren't sitting right with me just yet.

Firstly, the 2300 total level requirement - I get that we want well rounded players to be in the group, doing floors. However at the same time, a player's skill in dungeoneering (that is, how good they are at floors) isn't accurately represented by their total level. Look at me, for instance. While I might only have 2100 total (I've been grandfathered in to the new system), that doesn't necessarily mean I'm not good at dungeoneering, and that I'm not good at KABDE. Sure, I might not be able to open every single door in a dungeon, but I know the style, know the overall weaknesses of monsters (although then again, EoC has screwed things around for all of us knowing what things are weak to and how to attack them, but we're learning ;) ), and can perform well in a floor. I can do all of that with a slightly lower total level than most in the group.

According to the recruitment thread, it states:

"2300 total level - We want well rounded people who have the ability to do most skill doors and rooms. Our average total level is 2425. "

I get that, but at the same time, isn't the keyer usually the one who opens 90% of doors? Its easy enough to move the GT or have someone run over very quickly who has the stat to open the door, so while I don't mind a total level requirement I do think that 2300, which, if a player has 100 dungeoneering and exactly 2300, comes out to having about level 91 for each stat, is a bit high. Perhaps 2300 should be required for those wanting to help to lead floors rather than for those who will fill roles in the floor that may not necessarily require every stat to be 90+. I think that might be a little bit more fair.

02-Dec-2012 03:55:09

Applejuiceaj
Nov Member 2011

Applejuiceaj

Posts: 44,944 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Second point - a little bit of a conflicting description for trialers and ranked keyers.

"The goal for this rank [Trialer] is to have a group of leaders who help the group as a whole improve, exactly like the new keyer rank."

"If the [ranked] keyer feels that any part of a new member's performance in a trial floor is not of sufficient quality, the keyer must not pass the trial floor.

...

While new members who have failed a trial floor can simply re-take it, trial floors are never to be passed just because someone still needs one or because it feels harsh to fail them more than once."

KABDE is a lot different than typical rush style dungeoneering, and I think most of us know that. Its great to have trialers who are willing to be able to teach those new to the group the important tactics of the style so that they are able to improve. After all, all of us didn't learn how to dungeoneer or do KABDE overnight (ok, well, maybe some have, but not all).

The concerning bit here is the part where it basically says that if a ranked keyer is not necessarily impressed with the work of the new trial, that the player is to not pass the trial, and (maybe I'm interpreting this wrong), be removed from the group as trial floors are not meant to be re-taken. As I said, not everyone can learn everything right away, and while they may do their four trial floors, they may need a little bit more time to pick up on this. I would personally hate to see a new person to the clan end up starting their first trial floor, ending up with a ranked keyer, having a small bit of trouble with picking something up that is different with the style, and not be accepted further into the group.

At the same time of course, I don't know how easy (or hard) the ranked keyers are planning to be on new trials, but its a concern that I felt might be best to be discussed as while we all want the members of the group to be good at the style, people do need time to learn the style itself.

02-Dec-2012 03:55:18

Buffdude1100

Buffdude1100

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Apple, as far as I know, new people may take the trial as many times as necessary to get four passed. Of course that may have changed and I'm reading everything wrong (gimme a break, been studying all day >**** ;) , but I really don't think that's the case. :p Overall though, I agree with all of the changes except the 2.3k total one, not that I have any say in it.

02-Dec-2012 04:00:44

Grotius
Aug Member 2023

Grotius

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Apple, I think you misread, the post does say that players -can- retake trials. What will change is that trials will now actually serve a purpose, as opposed to being a mere formality like they have been for a long time.

02-Dec-2012 04:15:33

Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

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I'm going to try to clear up the ranked keyer confusion.

The reason we said that there is no way to apply or otherwise ask for the rank is that because if you deserve the rank you won't need to do those things.

We want the ranked keyers to be always looking for ways to improve. Therefore someone who is not a ranked keyer would be going out of their way to ask ranked keyers to give them advise on how to improve. In this way they will be in close contact with the ranked keyers already and therefore would have no need for an application.

It's ok to ask a ranked keyer what else you need to improve on in order to become a ranked keyer. It might be your dungeoneering skills, it might be your keying skills, or it might be your attitude. We wanted to discourage people from asking for the rank by way of application or in person who have no desire to improve. Too often people would post an application for keyer rank and just expect to be ranked. We want to get rid of that idea.

There is concern that it will be impossible to become a keyer unless you are friends with the current three. This is untrue. We have talked to them and they agreed to rank based on ability. If they are playing favorites or holding grudges then we will take care of it. If you think about it, it's not different from how we used to rank keyers. They needed the approval of three generals. We could totally be biased!

I understand that 75% of the fc got deranked today, but you know what? Life goes on as normal. Ranks do not change how we do floors. You can still key a floor without a keyer rank. You can still help others out without the trialer rank. People will be promoted, but be patient. Everything is new and we're all trying to get used to it.

02-Dec-2012 04:18:14

Applejuiceaj
Nov Member 2011

Applejuiceaj

Posts: 44,944 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
*rereads...* Yep, misread a slight detail when I wrote the second post. Disregard that one (what I get for trying to do about 5 things at once while writing that post).

"gimme a break, been studying all day >****;"

Lol...about to start the next batch of work to be done for later this weekend, so knowing me, this will be another night of me with books open all over the place until about 4 or 5am. :@

02-Dec-2012 04:28:05

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