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Dster0
Jul Member 2005

Dster0

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I agree with Kio that it's fine to decide not to key so long as you don't complain about the lack of floors or force others to key for you. It's also great to form floors without a keyer so that someone can practice keying. As Sereg said, it's not as hard as it looks if you've been paying attention to what your keyers do on other floors.
Matte is correct that first impressions mean a lot to new people. If I'm new to this group and someone is rude to me on my first floor I would just leave. I don't know how many people I've had to correct their style because they learned it from watching someone do it wrong on their trial floors.
95% of my floors recently have been with awesome teams. I feel like we've got a very good group of people here now and have solved most of the attitude issues. Am I wrong? Do we still have those issues or are people just dragging them along to the present? Forgiveness is an awesome thing. You make a lot more friends that way :P .

07-Jul-2012 18:31:33

Sun Exit

Sun Exit

Posts: 2,011 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To answer your last question Dster,
- as long as people feel the need to apologize for their efforts even though they are performing well with in the frame of what is required by the clan
- as long as people aren't happy to step up to try out the keying role
yes, there is something still missing?

07-Jul-2012 18:51:47 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 18:58:41 by Sun Exit

Grotius
Aug Member 2023

Grotius

Posts: 7,720 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've put people on the spot by making them key several times. It sounds harsh, but it's extremely effective. For multiple reasons (and yes, Sun did name a few of them) people have an amount of fear for keying a floor for the first time. If you force them to do it and congratulate them for the result, maybe adding in some constructive criticism if applicable, they'll end up much more likely to key again. It's just the initial reluctance they need to get rid of.
As for the keyer rank, I wish all generals were like Dster. Although I have no basis to judge on for the last month obviously, before that I still feel that the rank was given out much too easily and too often.
I'll be gone for at least 6, probably 8 more weeks, but I'm excited to return and do more floors after that :)

07-Jul-2012 19:07:07

Buffdude1100

Buffdude1100

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I wish all the keyer ranks reviewing new people were like me. >.> Guys, it's not just auto-approve if they do the floor. >.< Actually review and critique them. :p
Just TRY keying guys. It seriously isn't hard until you get to perfect gating/apm, in which case it takes a bit of effort.

07-Jul-2012 19:12:23

Poison Mila
Nov Member 2020

Poison Mila

Posts: 1,591 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
How do you possibly expect people to take you seriously on your "just try keying" when you can't even last three text lines without talking about "perfect".
No one who reads what you wrote would feel the least bit encouraged by what you wrote.
In one breath, you say, just do it, the very next you imply there are standards that you must aspire to (with the implication that you are ......if you don't).

07-Jul-2012 19:49:26 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 19:50:21 by Poison Mila

Sun Exit

Sun Exit

Posts: 2,011 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm glad I'm not alone to see this contradiction, thank you Mila :P
And lets just face it - some people just know they aren't keyer material. Much like some just know that they will never become artists or whatever. Why even bother to go through the humiliation of failing a floor disasterously, only to have someone tell you "yea, you don't deserve a keyer rank"?
If you wanna push/help ppl to become keyers, put your energy into those that actually shows some potential, instead of putting stress on everyone? I think it damages more than it helps.

07-Jul-2012 20:05:00 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 20:06:36 by Sun Exit

Divi
Jul Member 2022

Divi

Posts: 1,392 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"And really, 95% of our fc NEVER checks or even reads the discussion thread, so very few know about the hood thing. Also, hoods are irrelevant to wanting to key."
-Buff
Then why bother mentioning this at all on the thread? I feel like most of the usual keyers and some other regulars check this thread often. But your target audience for your message of "L2Key" doesn't read this thread. The average person that pops into the chat and says "Anything forming?" and dips out when they see no response, is not someone that actively reads this thread.
Also as far as what Sun was saying, it's true. I'm guilty of apologizing when I key a rather bad floor. Which is usually any floor over 40 minutes long. I feel like I didn't do as well as I could have and I should have done better. It probably isn't helpful to new people trying it out "Wow, that keyer/gen was mad about that 40 minute floor, I don't want him to get mad at me if I key a 40 minute floor." It's not that I or anyone else was mad about it, but it may be interpreted that way.
A suggestion to our regular keyers. If you see someone in a floor whos a competent fighter, but you've never seen them key, verbally suggest it to them via pm or public. Perhaps every other floor you key try to suggest or ask if anyone else wants to key. Say something along the lines of "Anyone else care for keying? I wouldn't mind a break from it tbh"
As far as approving keyers go. What I do is just go incognito and make it very difficult to key a floor for me :P that way they key for about a week at least before I do a floor with them and they usually either have everything down pretty well, or don't know what they are doing at all when I floor with them. Only a few people haven't been bad enough that I didn't approve them by that point (though I'm sure Buff will argue a couple I did approve, but I had my reasons for approving. I still stand by most of them, though some of them aren't in the chat anymore).

07-Jul-2012 20:27:19 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 21:03:12 by Divi

Buffdude1100

Buffdude1100

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Gah, you guys missed the point entirely.
I said keying isn't hard at all until you get to trying to achieve perfect APM/gating.
I'm implying that ANYONE can key, just not anyone can key perfectly.
Nowhere in there did I say or imply "key perfectly or gtfo." @Divi, I do that constantly but I always get "no you're the keyer rank so u key." -.-"
Ever see the movie Ratatouille? Yea, that kinda explains it.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. There is no humiliation at all. If someone harps you for keying a slow floor, then they're keying the next one since apparently they can do better.
Also @ Divi's story, then you see the problem is you saying "omg sorry 40 min floor." Don't say that.

07-Jul-2012 21:41:19 - Last edited on 08-Jul-2012 00:54:21 by Buffdude1100

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