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Sun Exit

Sun Exit

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I agree that the only way to become good is to practice, but we all know that, and that isn't really the problem. The problem is that ppl are afraid to even practice - why?
Buff, all the rough and loud talks about hoods, floortimes, binds etc has ALL something to do with it - it creates an overall intimidating atmosphere, were ppl feel that they wont be forgiven if they do something wrong. Not that difficult to understand really.
I've seen way too many keyers feel bad about their preformances (when they really shouldn't) simply coz of the pressure around and the lack of support. THAT creates a ripple effect. Other potential keyers also see this, they lose courage and rather back off.
There you have the problem.

07-Jul-2012 10:06:24 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 12:00:43 by Sun Exit

CptCapricorn

CptCapricorn

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thats why we should give positive reinforcement and make them feel relaxed so they feel like they are on the greener side of the grass. If we never give them tips and help them out they will feel lost and thats what true team spirit is by helping others so they can help others as well and improve overtime.

07-Jul-2012 10:20:08

Kio Tori

Kio Tori

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I dont key because I am here purely for fun. I dont find keying fun. I might as well not be here at all if I'm going to be keying because I'd have more fun that way.
I agree with Buff though, in that its annoying when people who dont key complain about the lack of floors, or ask for floors, or ask why there arent any floors, etc. If you arent making floors yourself you dont really have the right to ask why others arent. I dont have a problem with non-keyers (obviously :P ) but we shouldnt be demanding or pester those who are doing it (although equally people shouldnt be trying to force it on us).
But then I also agree with Sun. I used to key many moons ago, when I first got to 100 DG and join 3BO I was a keyer. I soon stopped though because firstly everyone was a keyer then. The only people who were that high DG so quickly were people who made fast floors for themselves.. so there was not lack of keyers kicking about. But also this caused the problem that because everyone keyed, everyone had an opinion on how you did it, what you should and should not be doing, etc. It took all the enjoyment out of it feeling that every discision you made was being judged, and ultimately it proved more enjoyable to just let other people key and to not complain about how they wanted to do it. So that is what I now do and I think why a lot of other people dont key as well.
So now you have a rambled explination about why I dont key and a semi-agreement with both of you. As usual I forget what point I was trying to make with this post... so carry on :)

07-Jul-2012 12:33:28 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 12:35:42 by Kio Tori

Sun Exit

Sun Exit

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I agree with you too Kio, lol.
People shouldn't whine for the sake of whining.
Back in time I wanted to key too, but the harsh attitude in the fc just killed my motivation. And it never returned.
I'm dunging for fun, nothing else.

07-Jul-2012 12:46:33 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 12:47:37 by Sun Exit

Matte232

Matte232

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I think a big part the basis for many if they want to key or not is set during their first few floors with he fc, because it is during the first time in the fc that we form our base from which we will build our experience on later. The effect of what people say mean so much more then, this is especially important for all those with a star rank(I'd include bronze star too).
I work with mentoring people every year at my uni, both as a teacher and as a student. If there is something I have learned there, it is the power you have.. I mean they are between 18-25 years old yet the see my words as law, you see them really following everything you say. And it takes a long time for them to think differently from how I said it.
What I mean to say is that if you are stressed(as in trying to complete quick, successful or not; or in some other way don't fit well with their style) as keyer in those first floors and the new person is unused to fast paced dungeons or my a relaxed type. Then that will set their future standard for a long time in how they should be as keyers and likely scare them off. So it is important that you think through what you do and say, and be patient.
I had a good start here(for me) and didn't have to deal with the more stressful keyers till after I had a firm ground to stand on, yet it took me 2-3 weeks before I dared to host my own floors and key. What pushed me over was that I saw that one of my best friends who is also in the fc key from the reason Dster0 mentioned.

07-Jul-2012 15:03:03 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 15:04:31 by Matte232

Sereg

Sereg

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I wasn't going to post on this thread because the end is so close, but then I made the mistake of reading it, so here I go:
If floors don't form because no one interested in them is willing to key, that's their own problem. They have only themselves to blame. If all of them wish to place the burden of keying onto someone else who also views it as a burden, then they are selfish and don't deserve a floor in the first place.
Take responsibility for your own floors. We're all members of the best KABDE channel in existence. We've all seen good floors. We know how it's done. We may not be able to replicate the sub25s, but we should damn sure all understand the basics of keying by this point. New additions are excepted, of course - but any long term member who's been with us a long time and done alot of floors should be able and willing to key if the need should arise. I don't care if you're efficient or relaxed - you should still understand how to read a map and utilize your teammates with some degree of effectiveness. And that's really all it takes to key, now.
So just do it. If you don't, don't blame anyone but yourself. Not your teammates, because you're dodging the responsibility just as much as they are, and not the faster keyers and players, because they simply aren't there, or they'd already be keying for you.
You may not be good, and you may not be fast. But at least you'll be getting a floor done. And if any of your less willing teammates complain, guess what? They obviously think they can do better, so they've just volunteered themselves to key the next time the issue comes up.
Carve our dreams in sanguine stone/Strength corporeal and of mind
Walls of our flesh, bricks of our bone/Deadly intent to defend our kind

07-Jul-2012 15:47:09

Buffdude1100

Buffdude1100

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Apple posted. :o *waves* Hurry up and get 84! You have 5-7 days before apps close again. xD
"Buff, all the rough and loud talks about hoods, floortimes, binds etc has ALL something to do with it - it creates an overall intimidating atmosphere, were ppl feel that they wont be forgiven if they do something wrong. Not that difficult to understand really.
I've seen way too many keyers feel bad about their preformances (when they really shouldn't) simply coz of the pressure around and the lack of support. THAT creates a ripple effect. Other potential keyers also see this, they lose courage and rather back off."
I ALWAYS tell a new keyer they did well and I always offer constructive criticism. I never tell them "wow you suck at keying don't do it again." That's just rude and I won't do it. I give constructive criticism.
If anyone on your team complains because the floor was slow due to your keying, then, as Sereg said, they just volunteered to key the next floor.
When people say, "omg no i could never key cause im not as good as u and everyone will get mad at me," I always tell them that no one will get mad. The only way to get better is to practice and if anyone DOES get mad, they're keying next.
Just try it, guys.
Another thing I noticed was people tried forming an occ+2+keyer, advertised it once then gave up. Why? Why did you give up? If we gave up every time our floor didn't fill immediately, there would be very few floors happening in here.
If you feel pressured to get a fast floor because you watched others get a fast floor... don't. No one is pressuring you. We're encouraging you to key so you can be better at it, not because we want to make fun of you.

07-Jul-2012 16:54:11

Sun Exit

Sun Exit

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Matte, awesome post.
I never bothered to put the full psychology aspect of it here, coz i thought noone would read anyways. But you are spot on. :)
Sereg, if you wanna enforce a rule saying that longterm members should be able and willing to key at all times it's ok with me. But right then and there should the "4fun"-part be taken out of the clan name.
Buff, I totally understand your point; "It's not dangerous - just try it!". If there was an overall mature, encouraging, supportive attitude for the potential keyers, maybe more would try it out. But atm (or at least a while ago) there were too many "oh b*tch, we missed the sub 25!!@@!" - kind of comments floating around. People silently listens, registers and make up their minds before they even have dunged enough to be able to try keying.

07-Jul-2012 17:44:03 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 18:14:34 by Sun Exit

Poison Mila
Nov Member 2020

Poison Mila

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I read Applejuice's post. I was on the floor he spoke of that he keyed. He had 2 under 100 combat people. One person that had only done one large floor before EVER. He had pot doors to deal with.
He did an awesome job of keying! He was relaxed, efficient and kept everyone busy all the time. When you have some noob with a katagon 2 hand on the floor who keeps hitting zeros, sorry, ts gonna take longer to kill the monster.
And at the end of the floor, he was apologizing for the floortime. WTF?!?!?!
I know it's not the only time this has happened, but this was just the most recent time it happened when I was there.
So imagine if you were new on that team. Someone does a great floor, and still feels the need to apologize. Would you even want to try next week?
And the cycle continues.
Applejuice- I still say you were wonderful. :)

07-Jul-2012 18:20:27 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2012 18:21:59 by Poison Mila

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