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Calm Enigma

Calm Enigma

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Subzero said :
It wouldn't matter how many you recruited if you could only enter 20 players from each Clan into the match/war. I think you're over emphasising just how much clans will go out of their way to steal members.

Only half the Cups are 20v20, the other half are 100v100 - so yes, it would matter quite a lot and a rule is needed imo =\ Whether it should be applicable in the 20v20 Cups is more debatable ofc, but a case could be made if a large portion of a clan's 20v20 team is comprised of new recruits.

Anyhoos, my main issue with removing mass-recruiting was my first one - that the Cup should not be mainly influenced by how much clans recruit. My second point that it could also negatively affect non-warring clans is something that is perhaps not so relevant now, but might be if warring ever regains a shadow of its former popularity. -
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13-Oct-2015 12:58:27 - Last edited on 13-Oct-2015 13:05:33 by Calm Enigma

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

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Subzero said :
Furthermore, most players who are interested in Warring won't be in Skilling/Social clans; they'll be in warring clans. Warring is a very specialist activity on RuneScape and it's not something the average player has any interest in.

That's not true. Half of my clan is in Skilling/Social clans and every year we struggle as many members are not being able to join the Jagex Cup because they're in different clan chats. Warring wasn't a very specialist activity either. It has become that way because the only people who still war on RS3 have a long history in warring and therefor became "specialists". I could write an essay about why warring is nearly dead on RS3 but that would be a bit too off topic.


For the sake of competition, I'd suggest keeping recruitment during the JCup to a minimum. It's a PvP contest and not a recruitment contest. The 20% rule has to change as it's hard to measure for clans and gives an even bigger advantage to larger clans. The 10 members/week is more than enough. However, only members who fight during that week should count, not those who drop out of the portal. Members who have been active on a clan's forum for longer than 2 months and held a rank shouldn't count as a recruit if they were invited to the clan chat. In case of a dispute, clans should be allowed to use that as evidence.

I'm also strongly against instant disqualification as there are better measurements that don't harm the entire competition. There are already so few good clans in it who can put up a challenging fight, disqualifying one will just give another clan a free ticket to the final and remove interesting wars. The Clan Cup winners should be the best warring clans, and you'll never know who the best is if a big competitor is unnecessarily disqualified.
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13-Oct-2015 14:37:55 - Last edited on 13-Oct-2015 14:43:00 by Fire Hawk154

Subzero

Subzero

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Calm Enigma said :
Only half the Cups are 20v20, the other half are 100v100 - so yes, it would matter quite a lot and a rule is needed imo =\ Whether it should be applicable in the 20v20 Cups is more debatable ofc, but a case could be made if a large portion of a clan's 20v20 team is comprised of new recruits.

I disagree with any bans on recruitment during the Clan Cup stage because it is too anecdotal to monitor.

If one cup is 20 v 20, then absolutely no recruitment bans are needed purely because it's such a small, specialist team of players.

If it is 100 vs 100, then still no bans are needed because I highly doubt that a small Clan is going to be able to recruit to have enough to actively participate in this category. If you can find me even one example of a Clan that's recruited on this scale (literally 100s of Clanmates in the Clan Cup period) then I will be more understanding - but until that point, I don't think it is as much of an issue as you believe it is.

Also, again, I don't see why you think it matters that new recruits participate? If anything I think it's great that new clanmates get straight involved with Clan stuff.

If there's obviously something underlying going on, such as paying people to participate for you (if you believe that's a bad thing) then you should consider taking action against that aspect of the competition; not the recruitment side. I think it's a great way to boost clan morale by having a huge boost in recruitment before the Clan cup.



Calm Enigma said :
Anyhoos, my main issue with removing mass-recruiting was my first one - that the Cup should not be mainly influenced by how much clans recruit.

I have completely negated this concern by suggesting that for the Skilling and Boss Cup, the XP gained, and the Boss kills, gets averaged per the amount of members - so 'mass' recruiting won't get you anywhere unless every single recruit is quality.
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13-Oct-2015 14:44:16

Calm Enigma

Calm Enigma

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I'm just focusing on the PvP Cup Sub - not really interested enough in Skilling and PvM to comment there. Recruiting a lot does impact the PvP Cup as it gives clans access to higher numbers in Fullout wars - no concerns have been negated. The fact that a mass recruiting rule has been in place in the Cups obviously makes the amount of clans I can use an example very small. If the rule were to be removed the number of examples would likely increase significantly - although that's not something I'd like to test. That said, I can provide a couple of examples, if you'd like to hear them just pm me in-game as I don't want to name and shame here.

@Firehawk - I agree the punishment could be improved. However it should not be reduced to the extent where it fails to be a deterrent. -
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13-Oct-2015 15:16:32

AngryAraxxor

AngryAraxxor

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Fire Hawk154 said :
The 10 members/week is more than enough. However, only members who fight during that week should count, not those who drop out of the portal.

You raise some very good points. This specific quote sticks out to me as a particularly good suggestion, because it at least deals with answering this point:


AngryAraxxor said :

- To prevent clans from getting a false impression of what their next match up is going to be like

Whilst also being reasonably easy to keep track of. ¸¸¸¸¸¸„‹•°Member of
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13-Oct-2015 17:02:54

AngryAraxxor

AngryAraxxor

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@Subzero & Calm Enigma

I would say I'm somewhat in between you two right now - I don't believe mass recruiting can affect lower ops in a significant way and as such most definitely shouldn't be a limiting factor in those. This includes things like 50v50 if that ever becomes a thing.

For the fullouts (up to 100v100) however, the problem is that no clan in p2p these days actually pulls 100 anymore, regardless of whether it's a small, medium or big clan we're talking about. So without any limits right now, it would definitely be mostly a recruitment competition as Calm said.

The question is whether or not that is actually a bad thing though. The fact that noone can pull 100 could be seen as a bigger reason for concern, which can at least partly be answered by allowing recruits in during the clan cup period. ¸¸¸¸¸¸„‹•°Member of
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13-Oct-2015 17:29:53 - Last edited on 13-Oct-2015 18:08:19 by AngryAraxxor

Performs
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now that I understand what happened, it appears to me as the other clan was trying to use that as their strategy and should have been disqualified for trying to circumnavigate the rules and bend them to their advantage, looking forward to hearing matthe's full responce
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13-Oct-2015 18:38:33

Scret
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In terms of the skilling cup i really dont see how "mass" recruiting really matters tbh, not sure how the other cups work to have a say.
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13-Oct-2015 19:30:21

AngryAraxxor

AngryAraxxor

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Hey all, I would like to thank everyone who provided feedback for this thread as it's helped me rethink certain parts of my argument. I've fixed several logical errors as well as hopefully made everything more clear to understand.

CHANGELOG:
- Post 1: Changed disclaimers
- Post 2: COMPLETELY REWORKED - it hopefully makes a lot more sense now
- Post 3: Edited to make clear we weren't trying to hit the exact recruitment throttles, but tried to stay far under them for the majority of the cup
- Post 4: Slightly reworded some parts
- Post 5: Fixed some flaws in my reasoning
- Post 6 (conclusion): grammar fix, edited solution #1, edited solution #4, removed #5 (change 20% into static value) as #4 makes it unnecesary. ¸¸¸¸¸¸„‹•°Member of
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31-Oct-2015 18:23:12

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