RuneScape Forum Archive | Clan Score: Clan Ratings

Kibbles RNC

Posts: 130 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dumb.

Honestly, this is just pointless and unnecessary meddling and I don't want anything about my clan on anything that you own and control. So if my clan comes up, I ask that you remove it, you do not have permission to use our name.

Best,

Shikimoko4

Kibbles RNC

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Rogue Ninja Civilization Thread | Clan Chat: Rogue Ninja Civ
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05-Jan-2017 04:13:22 - Last edited on 05-Jan-2017 04:25:12 by Kibbles RNC

SpectreGh0st

Posts: 47 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

All right, I've spoken to the person who is in charge of checking for fraud reviews. He did express concern that divulging this information could lead to people attempting to exploit it, but I'm trusting of the CLF enough to share it, in the hopes of our project obtaining some credibility among members of the CLF.

Checking for fake reviews starts with looking at the review itself, i.e. "is it at any particular 'extremes'? Is every single category receiving only 1's or only 10's?" If so, then the submitter's RSN is checked. If it does not exist, is not on the Hiscores, or appears to be a throwaway account, the review is tossed.

If reviews are not a "polar negative" (Receiving all 1's), then the usernames are checked. If the review is not a Polar Negative extreme, but the account does not exist or is not on the Hiscores, the review is tossed. If the review is not a Polar Negative extreme, but the account is blatantly an alternate, the review is tossed. If the review is not Polar Negative extreme, but the account might be an alternative, then they check if other reviews of the same clan may exist, implying the possible existence of fraudulent "up-voting."

If the person who made the review is a member of the clan and the review is not a polar extreme review, then the review is confirmed on the spreadsheet, adding it to the current reviews of that clan.

P.U.R.G.E. may also, at any time, ask members of the clan very basic questions about the clan to verify information if we have a difficulty in doing so. This is often done by communicating with a range of clan ranks, through one of P.U.R.G.E's lower ranked members. If information they provide is reasonably consistent, the review is added. We try to seek alternate means to this, but in some cases asking a member who is unaware of Clan Score may be an advantage in verifying reviews.

05-Jan-2017 20:40:28

SpectreGh0st

Posts: 47 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Kibbles RNC said :
Dumb.

Honestly, this is just pointless and unnecessary meddling and I don't want anything about my clan on anything that you own and control. So if my clan comes up, I ask that you remove it, you do not have permission to use our name. As I do not "own" Clan Score, I could not get back with you right away for a reply. That said, I have spoken to my Division Captain, who would have the authority to close Clan Score or remove specific clans. Her response was as follows:

Clan Score is able to function in an effective way because it allows Runescape players to leave reviews on existing clans, with these reviews being good, bad, or indifferent. To remove a clan from Clan Score on request of its leadership would only serve to undermine the integrity of Clan Score. If this were the case, a clan that considered themselves to be receiving unsatisfactory ratings would simply request itself to be removed to avoid having any perceived "negative" ratings from being seen from the public eye. If a clan is so concerned about what reviews they'll receive that they would request removal of their reviews before even receiving reviews, then that itself would make me question the integrity and honesty of that clan.

As more projects from the Dacian Division go into development, we are taking steps to ensure the continued operation of our services. We are currently in the process of writing a formal disclaimer notice for Clan Score, and our legal team is also working on creating standardized Terms of Service and a Privacy Policy for all services offered by P.U.R.G.E. I am confident that our projects will not be jeopardized by anyone who disapproves of them. You are welcome to refuse to use them if you wish, but if your clan name is submitted, it will be placed on the Spreadsheet, provided our anti-fraud team clears it.

05-Jan-2017 20:52:07

Mar

2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Now that we know this information are we safe?

`*•.¸(*•.¸(`*•.¸+¸.•*´)¸.•*)¸.•*´
+«´¨`•°

SKILL SCHOOL

•´¨`»+
. .•*(¸.•*´(¸.•*´+`*•.¸)`*•.¸)*•.

05-Jan-2017 23:30:33

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I feel that P.U.R.G.E. should abandon or reinvent this project. This thread is (literally) 100% negative feedback insofar from the leaders of the Clan community.

Many of the leaders posting criticism towards this idea have been leading clans for upwards of five years, and some are closing in on a decade. When veterans of any trade or community express their concern and disapproval to this level, then it is time to consider terminating this endeavor.

It's unfortunate however that P.U.R.G.E. do not seem to truly value the feedback, evidenced by you stating on behalf of P.U.R.G.E. that the project will continue regardless of any disapproval from Clan Leaders, and even Jagex.

There are many issues that have been raised both by myself and other Clan leaders on the thread, but I'll reemphasize my concerns based on your initial reply to my comments, and build on some of the others.

Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

06-Jan-2017 00:46:55 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2017 01:25:22 by Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

(Cont.)

Objectification
Something P.U.R.G.E. did not actually address in my initial concerns.

"Rating" is a method of assessing satisfaction or success, usually for a product or service; Clans are not a product, and most Clans are not a service, they are communities. Ultimately, most players join clans to make friends or play with others whom share similar interests. Clans are clans because unlike a product or service, people immerse themselves into the Clan as a member of it, and when you try to "rate" this, you are kind of rating people .

Sure, you could rate a single clan event out of 10 as a quickfire method of garnering the overall enjoyment (though generally this isn't a great way to get real feedback), but when you try to brute-force a rating system onto every aspect of a clan it borders on dehumanizing the clan; making it seem more like a service than a community.

Method of Comparison
Other than raw numerical data, there is very little for you to compare differing clans on. You cannot hold a Skilling Clan to the same criteria as a PvM or Roleplaying Clan. Many clans do not even have a specific category and dedicate themselves to something unique.

And even ignoring the above criticism, the numerical data is being handled poorly. Here are two examples:

• Some Clans listed as having a Tier 8 Citadel; which do not exist. This is confusing to viewers who have no context of the Survey where is states that Tier 8 means a "fully maxed" Citadel. Furthering this, I can't imagine your Staff validating every "Tier 8" Citadel for a (some Clans lock non-clanmates out of the Citadel.) Having a separate option for a "fully maxed" Citadel demonstrates a lack of research, as players don't care about this as it is cosmetic-only.

• Clan events frequency is rated from 1 to 10 instead of "Daily", "Weekly", "Bi-Weekly", Monthly" etc., which would be far more intuitive and informative.

Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

06-Jan-2017 00:57:49 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2017 01:26:36 by Subzero

Apr

2021

Sani btw

Posts: 13,829 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

This is wrong on so many levels. Too easy for biased people to manipulate incompetent projects like this.

Imo; padlock on this thread and stop with w/e you think this is.

06-Jan-2017 01:08:54 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2017 01:10:44 by Sani btw

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

(Cont.)

Value of Feedback
Ultimately, the service P.U.R.G.E. provides is to inform prospective clanmates with valuable data collected about the clan from those whom have partaken within its community.

You have Nine basic categories to fill in.

• Two of these categories (Citadel Tier and Citadel Obligations) are negligible as this information is usually already available on the Clan Page, or on the respective Clan's forum thread.

• Both moderation questions firstly assume that the Clan even has or needs a moderation team. Smaller, intimate clans (groups of friends) will not have a moderation team whatsoever. Again, instead of response-to-issue time (such as hours, days, weeks), you chose a numerical value between 1 and 10, which doesn't really offer any information as it is completely subjective to viewers.

• I've already addressed frequency of events. This information is likely to be already available on the Clan Page (via the Noticeboard) or via the Clan's forum thread; however, this should be a quantifiable frequency instead of an ambiguous rating between 1 and 10.

• The question about Discord, Teamspeak, and Offsites is literally worthless. Again, a value between 1 and 10 is completely subjective, ambiguous, and offers no feedback or insight to viewers.

• This is also the case with the ranking system; which again is ambiguously rated from 1 to 10.

• On the plus side, at least the Clan Requirements opinions offers some feedback, and the activity levels is actually valuable, unique, and new insight.

Having addressed the validity of the nine questions, I dismiss the value of the comment box as it is hashed on to the end. I would enforce a mandatory comment box after every question.

Finally, Sicariu made a fantastic point overall regarding surveys in general: You only get feedback from people who enjoy completing surveys, which is a specific set of outspoken people.

Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

06-Jan-2017 01:12:58

Apr

2021

Sani btw

Posts: 13,829 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mhm... How can you possibly still think this is a decent idea...
Kera said :
I have no interest in your spreadsheet, and agree with what Subzero has said, though no doubt you will continue on regardless of our opinions and our clans will be judged.
Subzero said :
However to be honest, personally I would not appreciate my clan/community being publicly rated out of 10, as if it's values are something that a simple number can represent.
Tyki Mikk said :
I agree with Subzero, no thanks.
Ceecs said :
I rather not take part in such a rating for the above reasons. Also I don't think you can compare all clans to another.
Lisaa said :
I can kinda see where you're going with this, but at the same time I don't think it's a good idea.
Leader Rob said :
no support from me sorry
Scret said :
Lol
Ignore List said :
I'm sorry but I don't support this in any way.
Kaeli said :
I think I will give this a miss O_o

Zyphix said :
Tyki Mikk said :
I agree with Subzero, no thanks. Same.
Ledr Knuckls said :
no support for this, its naming and shaming game. ppl join clans for reasons and some leave clan for reasons, it should never be posted out of 1 to 10.
Sicariu said :
No support.
King Patrick said :
No support. Scroll up to read why.
Salcos said :
Absolutely no support.
Kibbles RNC said :
Dumb.

06-Jan-2017 01:16:13

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

(Cont.) I'm getting a bit tired of writing now so I'll make these two snappy.

Fraud Checking
All you are checking, essentially, is whether the RuneScape name exists, and whether it was part of the specified clan. I was expecting to see that you would validate identity by contacting players whose names had been used on the survey, as there is no way for viewers to report fraudulent reviews because thereis no identity attached to each review.

Perhaps however, P.U.R.G.E. realized that this would not be feasible on a large scale, and that survey-takers would have to be trusted not to falsify their identity, because it doesn't have the scale or manpower to validate player's identities.

There is also zero repercussion of committing impersonation. It would actually be a very strong, easy way to troll a Clan you don't like.

Aggressive Enforcement of your Product
I think you need to appreciate that aggressively pushing this product on clan leaders and players is in poor spirit, especially when a single person could completely invalidate this entire sheet: It isn't hard to generate a new user token each time you want to re-take the survey, and it wouldn't be hard to flood and disrupt it with false reviews.

Furthermore, it is disrespectful to neglect the wishes of clan leaders who do not want to partake, and it is rude to assert that they do not want to partake because they are afraid of bad reviews. Perhaps they just don't want to be objectified, or perhaps they want their intimate group of friends contained within a clan to remain private?

I believe you should abandon or reinvent this. Why not create a comparison database for clans rather than a rating database? A simple, quick way to compare clans on numerical data rather than objectifying their values, such as:

- Citadel Tier
- Membercount
- Total XP
- How many logged in, in the past X days
- Event frequency (daily, weekly, etc.)
- Requirements

Like CompareTheMarket...?

Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

06-Jan-2017 01:23:35 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2017 01:23:50 by Subzero

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Clan Score: Clan Ratings